Items that would lessen the pain of the loss of 3PV
Allow us to customize the sidebar by placing the various section in any order we choose. I don’t want to see the inboxes or trash or favorites at the top but others might prefer it. We should be able to customize the sidebar just like we can customize the toolbar.
Remember the exact location within each database so going to it displays the full level you were at before. Do not reset each time you move in and out of databases (This should be the default and also what happens if you click on the particular database in the favorites section.)
Keyboard shortcuts we can define to move into and out of each individual database so it’s faster to flip around. Should go to the previously saved last view, i.e. automatic scrolling if necessary to display where we are now.
allow multiple tabs each with a specific database open to a specific place visible in a small top bar below the toolbar in the same way tabs in Safari are below the favorites bar. Can be shown or hidden as a preference
Those would at least allow some of the previously simple ways I used DTPO in 3PV to work. It would be slower and more hassle but a lot more doable compared to the mess it is now. The current system requires that I start and stop DT3, going back and forth between DTPO 2 and DT3 to get work done.
Had a chance to go through this thread… Frankly, don’t understand all the pathos and volume for 3PV topic, I’m sorry, not to abuse anyone.
Seems to me that if devs make a multiple choice and quick switch (maybe on the toolbar) to show groups or not in the view pane (and maybe even show or not docs from subfolders) - it’ll solve 99% of all the worries ) as short as that.
For use cases and workflows, I understand that all they are very different, but why the heck to buy DT as a mere substitute for Finder… It’s like buying a Boeing 737 to cross the next street and argue that you will quit using it, just because the new windows are too small…
And my 6 cents about enhancing a sidebar in one post (apart from above):
Horizontal scroll;
Option to retain forever the current “expanded/collapsed groups state” of any group (whether it is in Open Databases, Favourites or Globals section) with the selection of items;
Feature to expand/collapse the groups in Favourites section. It’ll also reduce the size of this section.
Use Aliases of the group (e.g. in context menu) for quick renaming of top level Favourites without renaming a corresponding group. Just for more comfortable, telling and shorter names in Favourites section (these aliases are also used for tagging - replicating to this group).
Collapsible Structural dividers for Smart Groups and Smart Rules with custom names, like (which I earlier suggested for Custom Metadata):
►----------- History -----------
►-------- Supervising --------
►--------- Research ---------
Smart Groups/Rules inside Smart Groups/Rules. Which is sequential narrowing of search criteria (and/or applicable actions in case of rules), like (just for meaningful example):
Essays > (Accepted > (A; B; C); In process > (…); Not submitted > (…)); …
It will shorten and organize Smart Groups/Rules section, and allow building alternative hierarchies automatically and without replicating, make a flexible choice in rules application.
Frankly, don’t understand all the pathos and volume for 3PV topic, I’m sorry, not to abuse anyone.<<
It’s comments like these that are just so infuriating. “I don’t mean to insult anybody, but" [proceed to insult]
“Pathos”? No, a set of well-thought out objections by the people who bought a product is perfectly standard, whether DT3 or a Boeing.
For use cases and workflows, I understand that all they are very different <<
Precisely why people chimed in with objections/suggestions. As they are entitled to after purchasing a product.
but why the heck to buy DT as a mere substitute for Finder<<
Sigh, no one has been suggesting…oh, never mind.
@padilla12, just read yourself for example. Half-a-hundred words of “pathos” and nothing (!), I mean, not a word, about “well-thought” suggestions… Not only in my post.
Were here good thoughts and suggestions? - yes, no doubt. Need they more than 180 lengthy posts if all the rationale for that takes one paragraph? Well, what do we call the rest, outside the rationale?
I don’t mean to insult you or anyone, I’m sorry, I understand that we all humans, just facts…
I’ve been using DT for more than a decade, and am even quoted on the DEVONtechnologies website as a public professional user and advocate. After a few weeks with DT3 I find much to like – thank you to the team for all the hard and impressive work that went into this.
But for the detailed reasons that have been eloquently described by others above, the disappearance of 3-pane-view has made me miserable. So far there is no replacement, no substitute, that would make it as easy to quickly navigate and view as that was, for the deeply involved way that I use DT constantly throughout my day, with multiple databases. It’s now simply more annoyance, more clicks, more work, more time to get around and do what I need to do.
The Navigate sidebar functions like the item list in Three Pane view, showing only groups.
Also, I have chosen to not unify Inboxes or Tags, so they appear in their own database as they did in DEVONthink 2.
This is unhelpful. As outlined by multiple posts above (and in the other thread where you posted the same image), the view you have provided a screenshot of approximates the look of 3PV, but does not replicate its functionality. I could repeat the points made above, but it seems that you are refusing to acknowledge that there are fundamental workflow changes to be made by those who favoured 3PV. Is that a correct surmise?
Edit: @BLUEFROG’s post has been edited to add text and a second screenshot since my original post.
Maybe it should be called “Four Pane View” because with that database sidebar open, it made it very easy to jump between databases. Jumping back and forth and not losing your mind because you have to go looking for what you were just in. I think I’d be fine with the new version if DT3 would remember what document I was looking at and stored that for every database and group.
It is different, because you cannot flags or labels etc.
Maybe our insisting on it sounds strange to you, but working with DT3 is much less effective, because you cannot handle the sidebar the same way as in DT2 which many of us seem to use extremely intensively.
The key issue from the advocators of 3PV remains the ease and continuity of workflow when switching from one database to another. I am sure that DT has heard it loud and clear, and they have already mentioned quite a few refinements are in the pipeline to address the the above mentioned matters. I am convinced that good stuffs are coming because the features that are most needed by 3PV advocators are also beneficial to all other users. So, I suggest to stay calm and be cool.
From reading some other related posts, DT has mentioned that at least two main features are work-in-progress to address the issues: (1) Keyboard navigation in sidebar, and more importantly (2) tabbed database windows in main window - this means that the view and settings and selection of each database will be retained in each database tab within the same main window. The effect of switching from one tab to another tab is effectively the same as the effect of clicking on database in the DT2 sidebar. Better yet, it means that different settings of the same database can be achieved by using database-tabs of same database.
PS: this is not official knowledge but only the info I obtain from reading the posts in this forum. There might be changes in the actual updates.
Yes—FUNCTIONALITY and EFFICIENCY! Working in a paperless office with DT3 is by far not yet as functional and efficient as with DT2, but there’s still hope!
I work as a lawyer for at least 8 hours a day with DEVONthink to handle all my clients in a paperless office with more than 100,000 documents, and I can’t yet switch from DT2 to DT3 because it lacks key features that are necessary for functionality and efficiency. It’s just not possible to do the same work in my paperless office with DT3 as quickly as with DT2
The main problem is the functionality of the new sidebar. It’s clear that DEVONthink is not going to bring back the former so-called “3 pane view.” But we can hope that DEVONthink will improve the handling of the sidebar. In combination with “show only documents,” the way we worked in the DT2 with “3 pane view” could in my opinion be possible again. With every update we get nearer to what we had with DT2 regarding functionality and efficiency. I think DEVONthink understands our problem but has focused on other problems so far (unfortunately for us!). But, for example, it has already been announced that it will be possible to search for groups in the sidebar with the keyboard.
I hope, e.g., that it will soon be possible to double-click on a group (folder) in the sidebar to view only the “sub-groups” in this selected group and not the whole “tree” of groups (e.g., a possible option within settings).
cetero censeo: I also hope that it will soon be possible to view the miniatures of a PDF at the same time as “Siehe auch & Einordnen” (formerly the “magic hat”). At the moment it’s only possible to see one “inspector” at the same time.
I hope I can soon start to work in my office with DT3 and use its great new functions!
Thank you, but as others have described, this does not come close for many of us to the former functionality, speed, and ease we had with 3PV, for a variety of reasons. What we had with 3PV, for example, was the ability to instantly hop between different databases with a single click, instantly see a full hierarchy of all nested groups only in that database in exactly the expanded/closed state we’d left it previously at nearly the full height of the screen, and with only one more click, scan instantly the most relevant portion of the contents of the group based on previously set sort state and criteria – and see a partial preview of any of those items as well. Even while hopping between a long list of eight databases (which I need because some sync and some don’t, etc.) I was almost always able to see the list of most-relevant contents of a group with only two clicks, always reliable, always the same. It’s hard to imagine sidebar alone allowing this level of speed and simplicity, even with significant tweaks. I really appreciate the spirit of there being many different ways to use DT that is emphasized by Dtech, but in this case as a user if feels like many of us are losing one of those ways that is crucial to us.
P.S. I should have added that what you’re proposing with those screen shots—using sidebar and one pane to mimic a 3PV effect—is, in fact, the first thing I tried when I realized with dismay that 3PV was missing in DT3. Even if the sidebar were to remember and retain the expanded/collapsed state of all groups and subgroups in each database (or rather, especially if it were), the massive amount of scrolling up and down and hunting & pecking required to navigate up and down through a significant number of databases with dozens of groups and subgroups using only the sidebar (or alternatively, collapsing and expanding databases and groups all the time) is just far, far more taxing and slow than what I describe above as an example usage pattern in DT2 with 3PV. And yes, I do need to have eight different databases open throughout my day, I move between them repeatedly and constantly.
I think @quirkt has summed up the issues for me very well. It’s not the look of 3PV that I miss, it’s the superlative functionality that it gave. For those that didn’t use 3PV, the loss is not big deal, but for those of us who used 3PV all the time, it’s like losing a hand – sure, you can still do things, but it’s a lot less efficient.
100% true. I am using both DTP 2 and DTP 3. I use DTP 3 for media management for personal use, but I simply cannot do my work as a law partner in my law firm without the functionality of the 3-pane view. None of the other lawyers in my firm, who all use DTP 2, have upgraded to DTP 3 after using the free trial. We all agree that the “view” is not the problem, but that the lack of functionality similar to 3-pane-view in DTP 3 is a dealbreaker. Keyboard navigation is needed. But the largest and most definitive dealbreaker is the inability to select multiple subfolders at the same time to then see the contents of all selected subfolders. I simply cannot do my work without that function and there is no work around.
Please note, I am saying this as a lawyer with CS background. I have personally written over a dozen of complex applescripts specific to DTP. I know DTP inside and out…and have scripts that do everything…I basically have DTP 2 manual memorized and the AppleScript definitions memorized as well. If I can’t figure out how to get the same functionality, none of the other lawyers in my office stand a chance.
