Accessing DT content as Volume in Finder

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:flushed:

The Mac filesystem can “replicate” files to unlimited places without copying them. This is not new. That is a fundamental filesystem function, probably even older than the company Apple.

DT calls that replication.
Unix calls that links (hard and soft). Available in the terminal.
Apple Finder calls them aliases.

About everything that DT does for organizing can be done in the Finder. The advantage of DT is the AI that is able to find connections between files and the search has many more options than Spotlight (but there are Spotlight alternatives).

I do not see any advantage of the DT database as a mounted filesystem. I am using DT instead of the Finder and run the scripts inside.

Some files are only indexed because of size or because they are automatically created be other programs. Inside DT there is no noticeable difference between imported or indexed files.

And you are not running scripts in the terminal of iOS because of sandboxing. On iOS you can access files inside DTTG because you have to do it that way. It is the only supplied function of the OS. On macOS you have more options (until everything is sandboxed too).

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Though you can run JavaScript scripts on i*OS with Scriptable and Python scripts with Pythonista. They just don’t work with DTTG because it doesn’t expose any scripting interface (or does it?)

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Scripts are possible but the use is very limited. You can not automate anything. You can not access the files of other apps (without a jailbreak).

The only scriptable apps are from the Omnigroup.

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You probably are no programmer, or?

Of course, you can make a layer that matches the real content to the virtual content and offer the same as Volume to the operating system.
That is, what basically any File System does and was done numerous times and all systems.

You can see the same with Cryptomator, which offer the un-encrypted content as regular Volume that can be mounted.

And your own company does the same in DTTG, where the imported content get’s provided as regular File System to any other App via the Files App and the DTTG Document Provider.

Of course I cannot demand anything to be programmed, but I want to make clear this this would be possible!
If the company wants it.

And I also need to say that the “indexed content” was a good idea, as long as it did not in parallel change the physical files and location.
I am even speechless that you did it this way!

It would also mess with backup solutions and often not even possible, if the files reside on read-only storage!

Is there at least a way to disable this?

Instead of doing this, it would have been better to let the physical files of indexed content alone and just offer a virtual view to both imported and indexed content as a new mountable Volume.

That would solve all the problems.

And as i said, in many many use-cases those files may be non-changeable anyways, so that makes indexing files nearly unsuable.
You did use the wrong junction to state it simple.

Sorry, I tend to be direct.

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I beg to differ, at least where it concerns Scriptable. It is capable to access files outside of its own folder, afaik. If they are located in the iCloud drive… As to the possibilities of automation on i*OS: I think the jury is still out on that question. People do things with it, if you find it useful, is another thing. And there’s not only Omni* that supports scripting on i*OS, but also Drafts.

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You do not understand sandboxing. If your filesystem is sandboxed and encrypted it is something completely different to access files somewhere else on other peoples computers (cloud).

Jeff asked for script support in the terminal for a mounted DT filesystem just like in iOS. This does not exist in iOS! You can not access files in the folder of another app!

Drafts has some automation too but not scripts. And of course there is Shortcuts. But Omnigroup has build in Javascript support for some real automation. They are the first as far as I know. I still hope for the AI and scripting support in DTTG.

The trend is not to open up safer systems but instead to lock down all the others even more. The sandboxing is now in macOS and will be in the next version of Windows. Thanks to all the idiots who are installing every virus or trojan they can find.

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Re Drafts: Let’s just say that you can write scripts (aka “Actions”) for it in JavaScript and have them execute on i*OS. If you consider that “automation but not scripts” is of course up to you.

Re Scriptable: You can e.g. copy files from an SD card to a predefined directory on the i*OS device. You can also access files in other predefined directories on the device, provided that you have “bookmarked” them in Scriptable’s settings. I know, this can’t have anything to do with sandboxing, because I don’t understand that.

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The Server functionality isn’t an option for me, as much of what would make life easier for me involves automation on the file system level. While it would sometimes be very useful, I find it hard to motivate the significantly higher license cost. Overall, it seems more tailored to enabling multiple users accessing DT content (like in an office), and it’s priced accordingly. I’d love seeing an upgrade that would allow access only by the license holder, for a much lower fee.

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Difficult to say at this point, considering how the licensing works.

Overall, I’d love to see a more granular approach to licensing without these editions. Picking and choosing the added functionality you need on top of the basic app (like OCR, imprinting, web access) would be ideal. If/when DT becomes a subscription service, maybe this will be the way forward. If you no longer need a certain features, you could then stop paying for them, individually.

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In many cases they are not… and many people find indexing of external files very useful and usable.

The developer stated it is not on the roadmap at this moment and providing a virtual filesystem is also a request not frequently made. This also means many DT users don’t actually seem to have the need for this feature, at this moment.

Indexing does wat it says, it indexes the content. It does not move you files (unless you Import content into DT). If files are moved or changed after indexing it is not done by DT.

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I don’t understand this discussion, really don’t understand.

If you want to have your files within DT, move them into DT.

If you want external access to your files without DT, index them.

So simple.

With indexed files, you can modify/delete/move them extern to DT, and DT will update those operations more or less in background, more or less in a reliable way. If you have more than one mac or DTTG, you need some patience until all devices got synced.

Rules to use indexed files in DT: don’t delete from inside DT because they will be removed from filesystem (and you will have it in macOS trash once emptied DT Trash as if you had deleted from finder).

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One thing that I haven’t yet seen come up yet in this discussion - DT allow the use of the same name for multiple different files in the same group (folder). I make use of this during scanning as the auto file naming heuristics can sometimes create multiple files with the same name in the Inbox when I’m scanning a lot of documents. And there are times when you might actually want two different files with the same name in the same group. You can’t replicate that functionality in the Finder, it doesn’t allow multiple files with the same name in the same folder.

Also, symlinks aren’t the same as replicants. While Unix hard links are closer in functionality and still work in APFS, hard links aren’t supported by the Finder (you have to use the command line to create them) and many Mac applications break hard links when they save a file because they don’t overwrite the same file, they save to a copy and then move the copy to replace the original, thus breaking the link. On the other hand, editing within DT doesn’t break replicants.

One of the reasons I use DT is that it’s more powerful than just arranging files in the Finder, else I would just do that.

But if your workflow really requires files in the Finder as well as DT, and you don’t mind the Finder’s limitations, then use indexing instead of moving the files into a DT database.

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73

I’ve enjoyed reading through this, but at the end of it all, I agree. I think everyone making and backing these requests for new features aren’t seeing that they’re either inelegant alternatives to what’s already there, or far beyond the scope of what DT was intended for. Seriously, at this point people are suggesting operating system-level features be written into this one desktop document manager. The limits on what DT can do are both defined by and an indication of what DT is.

Use your OS filesystem and shell for stuff like snapshots, shell scripting, and version control, and let DT manage the metadata of your documents.

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I am saying that it seems to be easy to offer some virtually organized stuff as mountable Volume.

This can be seen at Cryptomator and also at DEVONthink To Go.

If this is not a plan for the company, I am very sorry.

Otherwise, as always, who ever is not interested in such a feature, please dont’t care to disturb such a topic!
You option is simply not needed in this case.

If you have suggestions to make such an idea - any idea for any feature - any better, please go on!

It’s such simple.

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Your comment is very unnecessary, not the opinion of other users. There’s often a good reason why people reply to feature requests of other users.

As to your feature request: I don’t need it, I don’t want it. There’s enough to do.

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This is what i meant. No need for such comments.
I and many others would greatly love it, so for what reason should anyone does not like it post here?!?
A discussion about how to best barbecue meat does not need comments from vegetarians too. They have no use and need in such a topic

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Exactly, no need for such comments:

My post was a direct reaction to this comment, without it I would still follow the thread as a reader.

Seems you still don’t understand why people comment feature requests. In my case it’s not hard to understand:

Such a feature would bind resources that couldn’t be put into other features. I don’t want that.

But, I wouldn’t have posted my opinion if you didn’t think you could tell people where they are allowed to post and where not. That’s not how this forum works and I’m quite surprised that you didn’t get that by now.

If you still need help understanding why people comment feel free to ask. If you allow me to reply I’ll do my best to explain it to you. You could of course tell people once again where they are allowed to post. In this case I would reply just to show you once again that that’s not up to you.

Also noticed that you can’t imagine how others use DEVONthink. Maybe it’s a good idea to read a bit in the forum and get to know the app. And maybe next time you check what an app actually offers beforehand. Just some ideas.

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No one is complaining you posted your suggestion.

However, you are incorrect in your desire to silence other voices on the subject. I’m positive you have posted dissenting opinions on something here or on other forums. Should your opinion be erased from such threads or you only allowed to post when you agree with the main thesis of the thread?
No. Only if you or anyone else is acting without civility and making personal attacks on others on the forums should action be taken.

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Now, in the Internet, there sadly lots of people who like to downtalk other’s.

I think, my comparision with a discussion about barbecue which does not need any vegetarian to explain that eating meat is bad and that instead vegetables should be eaten, was quite fitting.

So, yes, for me, any kind of feature requirest simply does not need to who want to talk this feature down!
Better just leave the subject alone.

Have something to contribute “to the topic”, meaning additional points and ideas and variants? Great!

Just mentioning that one does not like or want the feature?
No!
Please not!

And to be honest, I even feel that this should already be enforcede by the moderation team.

And I will not reply to “pete31” and his unneeded, unfriendly and unconstructive comments. This would only lead to some stress on the forum, which nobody wants - beside pete31 maybe.

I feel trolled by him and don’t want this to escale anty further.

So, on topic: This feature would solve several problems with DT and offer lots of new ways to use it.

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I agree it would be a terrific idea but from a technological point of view would take so much effort that there is no way it will be prioritized ahead of the lifetime of “nice to have” projects DevonTech already has on their list.