Am I dumb? I just want a new note 😒

[JD2374]

@BLUEFROG

If one expected DEVONthink to act just like other applications (and no, there is no “universal - make a note”, etc. behavior in all apps) , why wouldn’t the person just continue using the other apps? (No offense intended. A legit imate inquiry.)

C’mon… What app that allows for “New Note” or “New Doc” or anything in which the user would be typing, doesn’t then display said note / doc?

User: Hey app I want a new X. Oh! I will chose new X
App: Ok. Done! … Now you go find it

[BLUEFROG]

I said, “etc.” pointing out difference in operations can be found in apps.

You’ve also referred to Evernote which is a single window application, lacking a document window. So it’s not apples-to-apples as there are different behaviors in document windows, e.g., the differences in toolbar items available.

If you are working in a main window, the document would be created in the current group in the item list.

PS: There is no intent to argue on my part. I am presenting a perspective and what I have found to be a trouble spot for more than a handful of users.

[anon6914418]

Let’s take the approach Don Norman would perhaps take.

If DT is minimized, and one creates a new note from the menu bar, what feedback does a user get to recognize something happened?

The Notes application seems to ‘solve’ this by greying out the ‘New note’ item when the application is minimized.

[BLUEFROG]

If DT is minimized, and one creates a new note from the menu bar, what feedback does a user get to recognize something happened?

If DT is minimized you’d be creating a note from the Sorter. That would remain in state until saved and it would be saved to the location chosen in the Sorter.

Or am I missing something?

[Blanc]

Criss & Jim (@BLUEFROG), with the preferences not set to Double-click opens documents externally, do the following: open a document by double-clicking (thereby opening its own DEVONthink window). Now close the “main window” (i.e. the one from which you opened the document). It is now not apparent how to get the main window back (the only way I could find was to close the document, then click on the DT icon; anything else just brings the document window back into focus); I must admit, if that were my workflow, this would be a major PITA.

@JD2374 James, maybe a workaround for you would be to enable the setting mentioned above; that way documents are opened in the app defined by system preferences (e.g. TextEdit for simple notes). The DT main window would then react the way I understand you to want it (is my understanding of what you are saying correct?)

[anon6914418]

Try this:

• open DT
• minimize to dock (click nothing else)
• in the main menu on the left click Data -> Plain Text

What feedback do you get without activating DT from the dock?

Try the same with Notes. See the difference?

Whether @JD2374 would be happy with the Notes approach by greying out is not my point, but the seemingly missing feedback is. It’s the ‘close doors’ button in an elevator without a light or the doors actually closing (which some say the button doesn’t even do in reality).

[BLUEFROG]

It is now not apparent how to get the main window back (the only way I could find was to close the document, then click on the DT icon; anything else just brings the document window back into focus)

• Command-Option-N will open a new window.
• Clicking on the Location in the Info inspector will launch a new window if none is minimized or reopen a window with the location as the root.

[BLUEFROG]

Try this:

• open DT
• minimize to dock (click nothing else)
• in the main menu on the left click Data → Plain Text

What feedback do you get without activating DT from the dock?

None but I’d also say that’s a curious thing to do, especially in light of your suggestion of what Apple Notes does… or actually doesn’t do.

And Development would have to assess the behavior as well. I’m just reporting how things are.

[Blanc]

So it does!

Page 80 of the DEVONthink manual, btw @anon6914418
I was looking for this in Menu/Window - it makes as much sense for it to be in Menu/File, actually - just I wasn’t expecting it there.

[BLUEFROG]

I use Command-Option-N all the time, especially immediately followed by Command-Option-F - so just doing a quick finger dance from N to F.

[anon6914418]

@BLUEFROG

but I’d also say that’s a curious thing to do

Yes, but not necessarily to someone who is completely new to the product

@BLUEFROG

And Development would have to assess the behavior as well. I’m just reporting how things are.

I know, and to be clear: it’s not that I ‘blame’ anybody for anything as it’s very difficult to built a complex product like DT. It’s Murphy’s law as much with the design itself, as with the effect it has on users.

I might have misunderstood @JD2374, but the sequence I described is what might have happened. And if that’s the case, I perfectly understand the confusion.

In the seven stages of action model described in the book, Norman describes the way a person might operate to understand a (new) task, perhaps like @JD2374 did. It requires executing an action (step 4) and perceiving the ‘state of the world’ (step 5) immediately after that. When the ‘state of the world’ doesn’t appear to change, what is the logical action most people take? Press the ‘close elevator doors’ button again, and again…?

And thus you end up with a user that is annoyed/frustrated/confused (the choice is yours) and/or several newly created notes without a title

[tudoreynon]

I have to say I found time learning shortcuts was time well spent on DEVONthink 3 : more so than on a lot of other apps in fact. I also found that I tend now to create my workflows around DEVONthink 3 rather than the other way round if I can put it like that. This is a strategic issue to some extent and not just a simple ‘how do I get DEVONthink 3 to do such and such…’.

[cgrunenberg]

@JD2374

Would be nice. I dont know if you meant “should” be, like in the future, or “already is”. It doesn’t currently work that way for me at least.

It should already work after closing all windows. Which version of macOS do you use?

[FESteward]

I am trying to do this but when I try to set a preference for a hotkey, it doesn’t seem to accept anything. It just gives me a beeping noise and doesn’t accept any keys. What should I do?

[BLUEFROG]

Welcome @FESteward

You’re setting a preferences for what hotkey?
Ans what key combination are you trying?

[FESteward]

I was trying to use the tilda key on the left side of the 1 key. This was for the “Take Note” hotkey. Are there suggestions for those hotkeys that are recommended?

[chrillek]

@FESteward

I was trying to use the tilda key

This might be a dead key in your regional settings, i.e. the tilde only appears after you type another character. Try something like ctrl-1.

In general, I’d advise against using (or trying to use) a key without a modifier as a shortcut - if it were possible (which it hopefully isn’t), you could never type this character again.

[FESteward]

Thanks for this really helpful advice. Is there a suggested key combination for shortcuts like this?

[chrillek]

If you’re talking about creating a new formatted note, I’d follow the lead of the other “create new…” options. So, e.g., use Ctrl-Option-Command-Shift N. Or, if you do not need the short cuts for create RTF etc., just recycle one of them.
Or use something like ctrl-option-command F for “formatted” (provided that this isn’t already in use somewhere).

[FESteward]

Thanks for your helpful response.