I hate to sound like a broken record, but is it possible to get a timeline on when the final stable release of DTPro 2 will be released? At least a plausible outside estimate?

I’m getting close to migrating away from DTPro as I begin to believe the new version might not be released for a long time (I originally expected it at the end of last year!). And, given the forum posts I see on a regular basis, I’m not comfortable upgrading to the beta.

At the risk of also sounding like a broken record …

Surely DTech will publicly post any release dates when they’re good and ready to so it seems a fruitless effort to keep asking.

I don’t really understand your discomfort. I have been using the betas for months (8 months?) and they have been remarkably stable.

I share your frustration that the GM release is slow in coming; I’m also really wishing they’d get moving on the tags as it is still not implemented in the betas, but from a stability point of view, the 2.0 betas are at least as stable as 1.x in my experience, and definitely faster.

They’re still ugly though :frowning:

A few points.

  1. Maybe I am being unfair.

  2. I’m just not used to trusting all my data to a “beta” program. I subscribe to the forum feed and see that people have had a number of problems. But I admit I never subscribed to the forum feed prior to DTPro 2’s beta release, so maybe it is no different.

  3. Also, DTPro 1.x doesn’t quite have all the features I want while embarking on my next research project. So I’m really looking forward to 2.0

  4. I think early on I attached myself to the following item that is still in their news feed, and which gave me the idea that Version 2.0 (and not the beta version) would be finished before 2009 began:

Ever since, I’ve been checking in every few days to see if the new version has come!

Yes, I need help with OCD. :smiley:

Just curious, did you use Gmail while it was beta (which it isn’t now)?

Ha! Yes I did, although it is secondary to my primary work and personal yahoo accounts. And I never even really realized it was “beta” until their recent announcement that it no longer was.

But I’ve also tried other “beta” programs that would crash and cause lots of headaches for me in the past. Admittedly, most of that was in my pre-Mac (Windows) days.

I am getting the impression that I shouldn’t worry about version 2.0’s stability. I might try the beta version because of that. I’m just a bit nervous.

Christian’s alphas are more stable than many betas released by other programmers. I’ve been using DTPO2 for my working databases since before the release of public beta 1.

If you try public beta 5, the current release, you will find the databases are rock solid, it is much faster and more responsive than version 1.x, multiple databases can be open, searches are much more powerful, databases require less memory, etc. If you do OCR you will love DTPO2 for the increased accuracy and reduced file sizes of searchable PDFs after OCR.

A version 2 database conversion leaves the version 1.x database intact. So, if you don’t like version 2 for some reason, you can revert to 1.x with your database unaffected by the temporary switch.

Of course, before trying the update make sure the version 1.x database is in good shape by running Tools > Verify & Repair, and if there are no errors then run Tools > Backup & Optimize. And when the version 2 database is first created by conversion, check Window > Log for a list of any files that may not have been included in the new database.

I too am using the DT beta and have been doing so since I found the program on Macupdate back I think in December or early Jan, I forget which.

I have had many problems wrapping my thick head around some of the concepts in DT and figuring out how to do the simplest things (it took me 2 months to figure out that automator actions never worked for me, because the documentation was referring to actions from DT 1 which didn’t even exist in DT 2 yet) and I attribute a variety of reasons for my issues, ranging from the size and complexity of the DT program and how much it does, to the in my opinion anyway, scattered and somewhat sketchy documentation and poor real world use examples, where a good overview of what DT does and how it works, can be found through a combination of trial and error, reading the help documentation (unless it’s outdated, or refers to DT 1 or, or) and mostly searching through these forums, where nearly every question or suggestion anybody has ever made can be found, if search worked correctly or they were better organized anyway.

My point here is DT is complex, the interface is still in my opinion anyway butt ugly and harder to use then it needs to be, but I have also found the program to be rock solid, far more stable then production non-beta releases of such programs as Together and EagleFiler and have never experienced a crash yet.

Leopard 10.5.7 seems to have caused many problems, for many people, a long huge range of issues can be found in just this single thread on the Apple forums (and if you search there are hundreds of threads like this one) … 6&#9478196

Or outlined in this article for example … any-speed/

I am finding 10.5.7 annoying, it has slowed down both my computers and made them both unstable and crash prone (the entire system locks up, not just DT), but it happens once in a while. 10.5.7 is kind of like the Windows experience for Leopard, it’s an awful update but own experience hasn’t been that horrid, only kind of horrid :neutral_face: :neutral_face: :wink:

So that’s my experience with the current, up to the second, latest edition of Apple’s OS/X. On a real world scale I’d give Leopard 2 out of 10 points at this moment in time, and DT a 9. In terms of documentation and how easy things are to use though, Apple has always had top notch help and organization, 10 out of 10, with DT scoring a 3 out of 10 in that regard and I’m being nice with the 3 8)

MDAnderson, I’ll go along with some of your comments, although I’ve not had any significant problems with OS X 10.7.

But I’ll have to tease you a bit.

Since the public betas were introduced there have been three important sources of documentation: the Upgrader’s Guide, Release Notes and the online Help (under the Help menu). The online Help is pretty up-to-date on the features in each beta.

The Upgrader’s Guide noted that Automator actions were not available. A lot of rewriting had to be done.

But in public beta 5 Automator actions are working and there’s a collection of workflows available in the download disk image, within the Extras folder. They work. :slight_smile:

I paid for the full version of DTP 1.0 and have been going along with the betas of DTP 2.0 since it was released. For those of us keeping up with it, it would be very helpful if there were an upgraders’ guide a bit more tailored for us. It would immediately answer such questions as: “what’s new since I was last forced to download the newest beta?” and “do I have to pay for this yet?”

My experience so far has been as follows:
I need to look up something quick in my DTP DB so I fire up DTP 2 beta and “this beta has expired.” Ugh. So much for quickly getting that bit of info from the PDF I added the other day. Well, okay, click on link to download newer version. Confusion when page loads. Is there a new beta or have they released the final version? Read bits of page…what do I click to actually download something? What’s all this here about limited functionality? “Demo restricted to 200 email messages and 20 scans a day
Version 1.5.4 is only available upon request.” Does this apply to me? Confusion … confusion.

Give up understanding anything and finally hit something that begins download, install it, open DB and pray. Wonder if there’s something it won’t do that it was doing in the previous version. Wonder if it’s crippled because I need to pay for 2.0 or if they just haven’t finished it yet. Just for fun, calculate how much money I would be willing to pay to feel less confused.

Yeah, I know somewhere in that I should’ve included “backed up previous DB.” Sometimes I remember to do that, sometimes I don’t.

Anyway, this could be made a bit less frustrating if there were info written especially for those of us that have landed on the download page from the “this beta has expired” notice.

For now I’d like to find up-to-date answers to questions like that at least in the FAQs, where they can be easily referenced as needed. Publicly, many questions are still repeatedly asked and only answered on the forum, which doesn’t encourage growth of new information for the community.

Well, we are publishing a complete version history online with a link to it right next to the download link. You can find it here. This is also part of the software, you can find it in the Help menu. There you will certainly have noticed the line that says “Expires December 31, 2009” :wink:

Also, please note that this is still a public beta that is (except for the import restrictions of DEVONthink Pro Office) completely FREE TO USE. So in return we only ask you to download a new copy every now and then. We’ve hit the expiration date sharp this time, but it was still in time.

Not that it might irritate the bejeezus out of me (it does…) but is there a possibility that we’ll see the release of the REAL 2.0 before the world ends on December 21, 2012? Mayan calendar and all that…
Seriously though - how about the ability to give us warnings that the beta is about to expire, and to be able to upgrade the week before, just in case we are not able to be online the week that it happens - as almost happened to me this week (last-minute trip got cancelled, but I would have not been able to access the web for a week).
I’m just asking…

Frankly, I consider that a rhetorical question considering how often similar questions about release dates have asked/answered. Of course the possibility exists; it’s the likelihood that can vary… and be speculated ad nauseam, yawn.

There are already plenty of ways to give yourself those warnings without relying on DTech to do anything more than provide the expiration date, as they’ve always done.


I don’t think it’s well-timed to expire a beta when it’s more likely to be inconvenient for people to get a new version (e.g. during a holiday season).

We don’t know yet when the next release (beta or official) will be but DTech has always announced them when they’re ready to; no sooner, no later.

The beta expiration and subsequent lock out from one’s data seems to provoke a lot of anxiety in users. I think the reaction is understandable considering how we tend to use DTP. This sort of app needs to inspire trust and let users feel confident that all of their carefully curated documents and notes are safe and accessible. Maybe there are some things DT could do that would improve the beta expiration experience for users. It’s possible that some of these things already exist and I just haven’t found them on the site, (or squirreled away under the “help” menu because I don’t need any help until I can’t open then app) but, here’s a list of suggestions that I hope are useful:

Provide a graceful way to move back to DTP 1.0
A number of new customers have unwittingly downloaded the beta. This isn’t the experience they expected and are disappointed. Help them out if they don’t want to be beta testers. A user could probably just open 1.0 and recreate the structure they have in 2.0 and then import all RTF docs, PDFs etc. but maybe there is a way to make it easier. Public betas are great, but not everyone wants to be a beta tester. (The beta label placed on some web site services are amusing, but they don’t expire and lock you out from your data until you download the next version.)

Create an iCal feed to subscribe to, an email list, and/or an RSS feed specifically dedicated to providing information about beta expirations and a link to download the update.

Replace the “danger” stripes that indicate it’s a beta version with something useful like a subtle countdown display with number of days until users can no longer open the app because it’s expired.

Make the link to download the update a special page with information just about moving from the prior beta to the next beta. Don’t make it a link to the overwhelming

Really, I don’t care how long the beta period carries on. I appreciate how stable the betas are. If DT believes that expiring the old betas is the best way to handle it, that’s fine. Just please make the experience less confusing and anxiety provoking. Yes, the betas are “free” as in they do not cost any money, but there is an uncomfortable cognitive and emotional cost that might drive some users away. I think, however, DT could easily fix it by making us feel a bit more informed and in control of our data.

That gets my vote as the best post yet (or at least my favorite :slight_smile:) on the beta topic, rabourn. Thoughtful points and useful suggestions. I agree with all of it and only want to add an opinion about this:

Create an iCal feed to subscribe to, an email list, and/or an RSS feed specifically dedicated to providing information about beta expirations and a link to download the update.

SInce I favor simplification of communication/information resources with important user-centric info about DTech products (e.g. beta expirations) I’d prefer a new mailing list and/or RSS feed be created only for that purpose. I like the newness of the iCal feed idea except that would likely serve the least users.

Oh, and there’s an issue related to this:

Yes, the betas are “free” as in they do not cost any money, but there is an uncomfortable cognitive and emotional cost that might drive some users away.

Some people are objecting (in some cases vehemently :wink:) to paying for an expiring beta, which I feel is important for DTech to more clearly address. I don’t have specific suggestions how, only that too many people miss or ignore the Upgrader’s Guide PDF so it definitely shouldn’t be the only or primary source for this type of information.

Maybe a specific Beta Product page could be a helpful resource?

I second the thought posted above by “sjk”. It’s full of good constructive ideas about how best to address this very contentious issue. Thanks for taking the time to present this perspective on the whole issue.

Thank you all for your thoughts about this issues. As we don’t intend to prolong the public beta period I guess creating an iCal feed or special RSS feed to keep people informed does not make too much sense — especially given the fact that those people complaining would also never subscribe to an RSS feed. They don’t read the release notes, they ignore the Upgrader’s Guide. So the only way to keep them informed about upcoming releases is to pop the info right into their faces.

We missed to do this due to our last releases sharp on the expiration date. With the longer expiration period now people should (!) not run into this problem again but meet the Sparkle updater which then should effortless update their copy.

I will add some information about the public beta status also to the FAQ and add a link to that information in the DEVONthink and DEVONnote product pages. In addition I have written a short clarification on the blog.