Obsidian isnāt inventing anything with square bracket links. Thatās a WikiLink in DEVONthink. See DEVONthinkās Preferences > WikiLinks and the Documents > Document Linking section of the built-in Help and manual for more information.
Thank you for your worthy answer.
I am at the beginning of md or Rrtf etc. to learn what can do what. and DT is so powerful but not so intuitiv and you have to know what can be done how. So ist a learning curve which I want to take now.
I try to find my way only with DT but tools like reflect or obsidian or bear2/panda or iaWriter, show so much easy options. Some of them seem easier to handle ( sorry DT) some of them have only 10% or less of the features of DT, but some see to have some āfancy newā features, which sometime see to make big sense, when you are starting with such work. But sometimes I also find out that most or many features are fancy but you or your future workflow done need them - it like the 12.000Euro spezialiized Mountainbike which you always wanted ,and you got it. but them you find out it work help you with the mountain or even worst, you find out its not what you 100% need.
BUT at the beginning: you dont know What you need. So you try to find the best suite, meaning you take all features like collect them and try to find the tool, what covers all or most. that is really tricky but good for salesā¦
So here I am at my journey with my workflow tools, testing my 10 year old license of DTProOffice now DT3 and try to find out what it can do and what it canāt.
so for me its hard to find out what it canāt cause things work different in DT3 than in other tools.
Maybe it would help to know what DT is missing compared to obsidian or reflect. e.g. Can DT3 do backlinks to exact words in one file to an other word in another file. or linking from word to word in same or many files?
I dont want to use obsidian but I can not find out what it can do more -to know if I need it or not. I dont want to get used to a tools which I have to swap after months cause I need a function and learn again a new tool from start. so therefore a well done deeeeeeeeep comparison as a chart or table would help, but no company will do this because, nobody wants to show another too as better. so they list is missing the feature a tool can not do but show everything what they can do. and it will miss all things the other software can do better.
and since reviews are paid there is nothing objective out there I think.
all reviews are the same and no-one tells the deep truth.
That is my hard journey now to find out myself.
Or do you folks have a feature list comparison of all in deep features - not only what DT can do but what obsidian or others cad and DT is missing there. not nice for DT but helpful for the user and a longterm win.
For starting your journey of learning DEVONthink, I recommend you go to DEVONtechnologies | Handbooks and Extras and get and read āTake Control of DEVONthinkā (a āfreeā ebook compliments of DEVONtechnologies) and the outstanding āDEVONthink Manualā. Read the former and at minimum skim the latter so that you know what resources are available and perhaps pick up some tidbits.
Ditto what @AndreasEbner said.
I was a dedicated user of TheBrain before I discovered DEVONthink, and I have Obsidian installed.
In my use, the single most brilliant feature in DEVONthink is that tags and groups are very close to the same thing. Basically, a tag is a group. When you apply the tag to a document, a replicant appears in the tag. De-tagging deletes the replicant thatās in the tag.
If you havenāt seen replicants, they are like symbolic links. When you replicate a document or group, it appears in two (or many more, as you wish) places in DT and its title becomes red italics to indicate the instances are replicants of each other. You can further replicate any existing replicant to create more.
Edit any one replicant, all instances reflect the update.
As you delete replicants, the document isnāt deleted until all instances are deleted. You can delete the original first, if you want. The replicants are perfectly safe.
Back to tagging, you can develop a subset of a DT database. For instance, selected class notes from a database going back several semesters could be tagged for use writing a final paper. You can set manual ordering in the tag and arrange the documents in a logical flow.
Or, you could have your groups arranged by major subject, with documents in subgroups according to source. You might later realize a taxonomy organized by country of origin and decade is needed.
Tagging lets you form additional hierarchies. View your data from different perspectives as you need.
DT is cool.
Actually, theyāre closer to hard linksā¦ if hard links still worked like theyāre supposed to in macOS
Hey @AndreasEbner welcome to the club!
My strategy has changed since I wrote my previous comments.
I was so deep into the rabbit holes of Zettelkasten, Obsidian (mostly its plugins) and the Second Brain myth that I was blind to maybe the only truth: Iām a knowledge worker, but knowledge is not my end goal. My very end goal is making something with this knowledge: an article, a video, a podcastā¦
So a reflection came to my mind: do I really need such beautiful, structured, interconnected second brain?
As I started to ask myself such question I realized I was spending more time on connecting notes than on produce something from them.
Eventually I made a test: I moved all my MD files from Obsidian to DT, and uninstalled Obsidian.
After many month I still donāt miss itā¦
Ok my databases are lesser and lesser similar to a Second Brain, but I produce more content.
So I donāt rely on backlinks anymore: I simply use the link to the item when I need a fast reference to a specific note.
e.g.: I work in the educational field, so I have a repository of educational activities.
When I start a new project and I find an educational activity fits the need, I grab the link to the note and insert it to the note related to the project, so that I can jump fast to the activity.
Nothing moreā¦
Short story: I reduced the frills and see if I was able to live without them.
My next test:
Iām used to highlight a PDF and export a summary of the highlights in a md file.
Itās a Zettelkasten inheritance: I used so that I was able to create atomic notes from those files.
I was so used to them that I had a shortcut for this!
But when I started a new project, a training course about a very narrow topic, I went to DT and looked for information inside my databases.
And I realized I was extracting the information from the PDFs and their highlights inside the PDFs, and never touched the summary files.
So my next test is I donāt extract the summary anymore, and see if I can live with only the PDFs and the highlights inside of them.
Do I miss Obsidian?
Nope.
Sometimes I find myself wishing to have a more structured, beautiful to see knowledge hub, but then I realize this is not my real wish: my real wish here is to have more order in my life.
Iāve discovered the minimal approach is better for me and my life.
Hope it makes sense and helps.
Iām a knowledge worker, but knowledge is not my end goal. My very end goal is making something with this knowledge: an article, a video, a podcastā¦
ā¦
Sometimes I find myself wishing to have a more structured, beautiful to see knowledge hub, but then I realize this is not my real wish: my real wish here is to have more order in my life.Iāve discovered the minimal approach is better for me and my life.
These are very potent and astute realizations!.
Thanks for sharing your evolution, including deprecating applications and processes you tried but came to find werenāt as useful as you thought theyād be. All users in any application would benefit from this kind of thoughtful examination
This reinforces our constant perspective that while you should be open to learning new things, ultimately it is YOUR experience that matters. There isnāt one way to use DEVONthink or DEVONthink To Go, etc.. There are many ways, each of which can provide an unknown tip or insight. But in the end, you use the applications in ways that make sense to you!
oh i understand your journey tooā¦ back and forth and aroundā¦
i am a psychological counsellor and life coach with a real license (!) and work with the DAOIST Philosophy maybe you have heard of Laozi.
I combine western psychology with Daoist life philosophy to help people with stress, decisions, order in life and to find themself and have a solid self-esteem and calm life.
So I teach, I have Q&AĀ“s, I do online courses and counselling / Coaching and always feed my work with Daoist knowledge from the DAO DE JING Verses and their comments.
So therefor I need a solid PKM, or Database, how you call it, to find attachment points to the question of the client and connect it to the wisdom of the verses in the book to show to background of the meaning.
e.g. vers 1
so is very looks like this in English ( I use German language ).
and then I do connections to other verses or tags like ācosmologyā āemptinessā āselfāā¦ all that can be seen in the vet but is not directly written. so I find quickly the passages of the book where a certain topic is mentioned or can be seen/extracted indirectly. so the real text is one thing. BUT the real work is the indirect connection, the second and third level of meaning. the interpretation , the grouping of topicsā¦all that need a really solid way of attacking it. otherwise you will find nothing then you started a bit.
This book is just 81 short verses but I covers the same topics or even more than a book like the Bible inclusive all connected books. so 1000000000tousands of pages with connections.
This is the real reason I am now a bit obsessed with the working of links, backlinks , references, tags, groups, replicants, and the difference between all of them ( which is not 100% real yet but I work on it hard ) .
Theses connections are the basis and to money and the product afterwards I will get out of it like @IvanPsy said, the reason you do all of it, is to get something out of it, and produce something new. I do online courses, videos in future and coaching with it. and what else comes in future.
Till now DT3 was like a big tank of storage to put everything in it. And NOW comes the time to connect the dots and get all in order and get something OUT of DT. I love DT but its a big tool and a lot to understand and learn, so it takes you and shakes you, it needs your attention, and it want you to get all in - > then it gives you something.
THEREFORE I need and answer if DT3 can do all what I need - and in which way - and want it can not do, ( what maybe others can do better ) and if I really need it - or there is a workaround which is not too big.
The manuals and also not always so easy to read, cause they are written by someone who has a deep knowledge of the thing already and sometime its hard for such knowing people to get back to their early days where you can not understand what the beginner dont understand. the beginner view to a product is not a minimum view of a professional DT user divided in small pieces and explained. the pro user does things a beginner wonāt use or do, because he would be frightened to do complex things in the beginning or dont understand them deep enough to get the point of doing it.
BUT I will fight myself through the manual- I like the saying. RTFM - read the fux*ing manual
Maybe you folks can help me answer the question with my DAODEJING work, if that can be done good with DT. IN Obsidian the backlinks are easy to jump between the verses and connect dots and tags and everything. I hope that can be done in DT too the same way.
@BLUEFROG will DT add some more of those fancy āPKMā named features in future, like real backlinks (as I understood now the DT are not the same as in obsidian) and putting links to certain words in a file not only the whole doc. cause I need the exact word to be the end of a linkā¦
and getting more features in writing tools like iawriter or bearā¦ ( and pls dont ask me what I am missing in DT: this is the problem that I can not tell what DT can do - the other tools have some sort of feature list on their website, I could not find something like this about DT. - but maybe I overlooked it.
thank you again for your knowledge and explanation. that really helps to get use cases which express the use of a tool. which can not be easy understand by just reading a manual. uses cases make live simple and understandable.
Thank you for that!!!
I definitely will have a look at replicants - I dont use them yet. I did not understand it, was too complicated. but your example helped a lot to understand it.
Yes. that is impossible. Reading is a great introduction and I believe essential. But ādoingā is the only way to really learn.
Keep it simple. Do not fall into the trap of doing everything, going after the ācool and shinyā things first, etc. And hardly anything you do cannot be changed when you find a better way for you. Use it.
The answer that can be named
is not the answer.
There is no such answer, any more than you asking if Colorado is where you should live. A thousand people will give you 1000 answers. You will never know unless you actually go there and see for yourself.
As I said, DEVONthink already has what you refer to as backlinks, as well as other options.
and getting more features in writing tools like iawriter or bearā¦ ( and pls dont ask me what I am missing in DT: this is the problem that I can not tell what DT can do - the other tools have some sort of feature list on their website, I could not find something like this about DT. - but maybe I overlooked it.
This is impossible to answer. What writing tools specifically?
that all can be changed sound wonderful to me.
yeah this is why I was asking here so many questions about other tools even though I have DT3 since 10 years - but the reading did not do all answering.
A DT Youtube expert channel would be nice !? - what do you think @BLUEFROG ?
I think maybe people more would love DT but they have/had the same problem with understanding reading and getting it in doing. videos help a lot with this as use cases would do the same.
Can you guys name some video help also maybe ? is there some YouTube channels expertise on DT out there ? I could not find that much.
As DEVONthink a tool for documents I suspect video for many is not a market. But videos exist. Check what is on YouTube. And I am aware of but never used DEVONthink Field Guide | MacSparky Field Guides. Probably other resources can be found by more internet sleuthing.
i had those with linking in mind. warier can do links but I don know if DT understands them when using iawriter as editor.
or a bear2 as writing tool, should in the new version panda also have back linking in the editor.
these 2 are more editors other than obsidian or reflect.
the editor of DT seems so simple but maybe I have a complete wrong view on it what it can do- maybe its the same as iawriter or bear2.
can DT3 or DTTG understand if I use those editors in DT ( storing in DT but using these editors) would that work ? also on iPhone DTTG?
if I have a DT3 Pro version 2 seats now ( 2MBPros) - do I need an extra license to use DT on the iPad. I use it now on the iPhone but want iPad too?
or do I need the Webserver edition then?
[To be honest most (all?)?these questions are answered in the DEVONthink Manual. Try setting default apps when clicking on a document or the āopen withā¦ā feature.
Try. Read what I previously recommended. No need to repeat all what has been written here.
Edit: and do not it expect it to be a be-all-do-everything that other writing and word processing tools.
My favorite on YouTube is Devonthink for Historians. Some of their secrets are contained in their courseware. What they present for free is great food for thought.
For instance, their last video showed a Devonthink table template used for bibliography exported by script directly into Bookends. Magic stuff. The script they used is in one of their courses. Seeing whatās possible makes me want to sharpen up my Applescript skills.
I believe they post about once a month at present. I hope they keep up that pace. Iām tempted to buy one of their course packages. Thereās bound to be good examples in it. Even if not, Iād like to encourage them to produce more on YouTube.
It doesnāt seem very clear as to what you actually want to do. Do you need a file manager, somewhere to store notes and think, somewhere to undertake research, somewhere to write? Your primary purpose will dictate which tool is best for the job. DevonThink and Obsidian donāt do the same job, in my opinion.
I primarily needed a file manager. I had millions (not literallyā¦ yet) of pdfs, emails, documents, etc., and I needed somewhere to store them so I could find things easily. It needed to handle different file types, and needed a strong search function. That was pretty much it. Thus, I became a DevonThink user. If thatās what you need, Obsidian isnāt ideal for that.
If you just want somewhere to write and think, maybe Obsidian is better for that, as itās geared less towards archiving and managing content and more towards writing.
For what itās worth, I did use Obsidian alongside DT for a few months, but I want my notes inside my ālibraryā with my files, so it didnāt add any value for me (actually I found it an annoying bit of friction in my workflow, since all my files were in DT and I still had to go in it, but then my notes werenāt in the right place). Iāve gradually been closing it down.
But in any case, either you need a tool to do X now, or you do not. Assuming you do, start doing that in DT and see if it suits you. Itās pointless trying to guess all future scenarios at the beginning. Unless youāve mapped out your workflow and donāt plan on changing anything, you probably donāt know what you will need in a yearās time, and you should just start by fixing the problem you currently have.
I do far more with DT than Iād planned, because as I grew more familiar with the software and solved my initial problem, I had capacity to think about what else I could do. I didnāt even know what Markdown was before I started using DT, and now store many notes in that format. I would imagine most users start the same way with one specific action they need, and grow from there.
this is what I was looking for - THANK YOU ! that also helps a lot.
I mean the link to the course of macsparky !
Panda editor does work with DTTG with the āopen in placeā function. Aka you open the file in panda but itās editing the file in DTTG.
I really wish DTTG had a WYSIWYG interface. Would make so much easier (not having to click edit, being able to hit check marks, adding a button to add the date, and having quick markdown templates that didnāt need me to make a whole shortcut for DTTG would be amazing).
P.S. read Take Control of Devonthink. Itās not written by the DevonThink team (itās third party) and assumes youāre a beginner beginner.
Reading guides is a vital. Itās not wasted time and youāll learn a lot. Even if you end up not using DT, youāll come away with ideas for how to manage your own work. In fact my main problem is my own failure not to implement all the great suggestions Iāve read