I would pay a subscription fee if we got smart groups, pretty much. That’s the main limitation in DTTG for me - I have to be at my computer to access them, so some things I can’t do on the go. Other nice features would be a bonus of course, but I tend to approach subscriptions as a good way of ensuring those things will appear.
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As helpful as → problems fix coming → new feature coming → can’t tell you when or what → 1 year no release → yada yada.
You know To Go’s issues in feedbacks and forum. No need for old man to regurgitate. To Go lets customers down relative to to all your wonderful products.
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I agree. I think the discussion here is partly missing the point.
I had nothing but problems getting consistent sync results (matching search results) between DT 3 and DTTG to the point where I had to get a refund for DTTG. I think if DTTG solved its problems and added great features and had a reasonable subscription fee, that might work.
I can’t justify subscriptions since DT, for me, is a “nice to have” program I use once in a while, not a “must have” and would not use it as I eschew subscriptions. But, getting the software to just work better would be my suggestion for step 1 with version 3.
Subscriptions is about regular income for the company not, always, better products. 
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The first (income) being a necessary though not sufficient condition for the second (better product).
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Well I don’t keep subscriptions that don’t deliver. And I’ve had plenty of non-subscription model apps I use professionally go belly-up, but zero subscription model apps I use have gone out of business. For professional use, consistency is more important than saving small amounts of money - but I do understand why the same is not true for other groups of users.
Whether or not the value is there for you with DttG is not something anyone but you can say. I use DEVONthink every day, and DttG a fair bit. It’s a no-brainer for me. And the sync works fine for me fwiw.
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As a long term user of DT on my Macs (x2) who tried (about 12 months ago) changing my workflow to relying (mostly) on a new iPad Pro with Apple Pencil (for everything, not just DT) I’ve spent a while now working with DTTG and having to find various ‘work-arounds’ to get it to do what I’m used to always having on my Mac.
Personally I’ve no interest in using it as a purely ‘stand alone’ app, as I feel it’s an essential part of my Apple ecosystem to have all the same apps working on all my devices and synchronised (though even Apple can’t get their own apps to work the same when they hold the keys to solving the problems developers face!), and DT is essential to my everyday life and work now. I’d be screwed without it, but I know you’re all good people and wouldn’t hold us to ransom (ha, ha!)
If I understand the basic differences, DTTG (unlike on Mac) doesn’t run as a ‘proper’ database with files ‘inside’ them; it’s more like the files in Apple’s File App are ‘Indexed’ instead? This aspect (if I have this correct) doesn’t bother me in terms of it being a ‘stand alone’ app, nor even if it can’t do some of the many amazing things the full Mac version does (AI, OCR conversion etc), but where it currently falls short (too short) by comparison with DT is the simple ways it interacts with stored files:
Such as being unable to open and edit a saved spreadsheet or Pages document etc straight from DTTG without having to (use work-arounds) find and open the stored file directly in the Files app. This and my biggest bug-bear is the errors you get when attempting to edit saved PDF’s with Apple Pencil (Jim @BLUEFROG knows all about this already - but you are waiting for 3rd party dev’s to fix it their end - not your fault - hopefully in the next big update See link. We’ve all been very patient and understanding about his though, haven’t we Jim @BLUEFROG ?
Even though I only bought DTTG about 12 months ago I would also pay for an upgrade already (or even full price again) IF that new version worked more seamlessly with stored files without having to use a new/different process each time. Apple clearly thinks the future lies in bringing OSX and iOS/iPadOS and their Apps ever closer together, and I too think handwriting with Apple Pencil is brilliant and use it wherever I can. Handwriting-to-text support is fantastic, and note taking and editing documents (especially PDF’s!) feels so natural and is where the future is headed - So maybe DDTG can make the best of this somehow even if it can’t natively do OCR on PDF’s like the Mac version?
Would I pay a subscription price instead? Yes probably, though that’s not my preference, if this means you can spend the time and money DTTG needs to develop it to the best it can be (within the constraints imposed by iPad OS). Been with you guys for many years now and have no plans on that changing, and clearly you’re all great people and need to eat and be happy and pay your bills (even if that means having to drive a FIAT@eboehnisch for a little while longer!). Even charities have running costs!
How much people are prepared to pay is a complex and often difficult question; the answer inevitably leaves some unhappy, but I think most of your customers by now know you are honest and fair people. Maybe the solution is to have different tiers or types of subscription? Not a big fan of monthly or annual subscriptions personally, so when I bought into Roon for my music listening, I paid a one-off Lifetime Subscription Fee instead, whereas others pay annually (or monthly too). Lifetime sub was equivalent to about 5 years up front, whereas others want to just pay each year/month and leave if they don’t want it anymore - this choice of ways to pay seems to work very well for them. Maybe @eboehnisch should look at Roon’s approach too (See link
Apologies for such a long post but thank you for your patience (if you got this far 
)
Steve
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This is for me the most interesting post of the whole thread.
Why? This is exactly the statement I’m looking for as I’m not aware what DTTG is going to be.
I got no problems paying money for goods apps. Even much money like 100 $ for Muse is ok if the advantages predominate.
DT3 and DTTG are the center of my second brain and my main problem is, that both apps have so many (possible) features but only some of them are fully usable. Maybe DEVONthink got too many features to develope, maintain and update. In the end all features got some small bugs or missing features.
Over all, there is (and I think I tested enough maybe all comparable apps) no other app which is even close to DT with DTTG.
But some features are important to remain the #1-app:
1.) Notetaking
I’m going with pix. DT and DTTG are notetaking-apps. Every app with the function to input text or reading and annotating pds is a notetaking-app. If it’s not, than there are some better apps to read and annotate pdfs or other view files in folders.
DT and DTTG did not do notetaking well. I did not expect some Bear-like design and usability, but the markdown/text-editor in DT3 is really some kind of joke.
Some examples:
- Button to annotate text is gray for markdown usage, but the syntax is available with {== ==}
- Linking to other files is a mess and not even close to user-friendly
- The editor looks like it is stolen from the 90s
Furthermore creating and editing markdown-files on DTTG is even worse (creating popup is not intuitive and the editor is a simple text field without any function. (syntax-highlight, etc.)
It is great to support markdown-files but I think it is only 80 % implemented and not usable as a daily driver.
2.) PDF-Reading and annotating
- PDF Viewer in DT 3.0 again looks outdated but it is ok for me, as I use DTTG as a PDF viewer
- Viewer on DTTG seems to be a third party software and could be so much more
- The mentioned “Highlights”-App is so powerful and got so many features, really nice export functions AND seems to a one-man-project.
- I think DTTG could be so much more because the PDF Viewer is (in my opinion) the main function of DTTG.
- Exporting annotations to work with them (work means for me to edit them) to Markdown and RichText is possible on DT. This is so great. This options is a bit hidden but it is nice. No equivalent on the DTTG app, which should be the main device for annotations.
3.) Metadata
DT3 got tons of possible metadata for files. Way too much for me, but maybe some users want to use them.
And DTTG couldn’t even change the name of simple labels.
4.) There is more
- WebDAV-Sync is great feature and maybe the most valuable for me
- The pen of my iPad is very much not relevant for using DTTG. It can’t agree to BLUEFROGs statement that the pen should be used to annotate pdf only. Yes, after entering the “edit mode” and activate the annotation-function the pen is useful. But this is not the kind of improvement I’m expecting from this app and my pen. I’m looking for
- handwritten notes with text recognition and maybe conversion to text
- sketching little notes in splitscreen while reading a document
- Offline function for documents in databases: GREAT!!!
- Audio notes are a great idea too, but they are not handy in a environment of text. There should be a some kind of transcription to make the notes search- and usable
- Giving the user the possibility to use external apps is great. Handing over responsibility regarding missing feature to this external apps is not good.
I think I made my point. I like DT and DTTG so much and appreciate there function, but as a DT user for several years I’m in fear that DEVONtechnologies got lost in making too many functions available but none of them works or feels great.
Maybe there should be some kind of spring cleaning and refocussing on the main features and giving them 100 percent attention. And if this feature are not mine. I’m good. But now I feel bad for owning DT license and finding better apps for every main aspect of this app. No app got them all, but I would rather use several apps with great functionality than one which is hardly working.
The missing roadmap for DTTG 3 is bad for me but I have to accept this decision. On the other hand this leads to high expectations and less patience from day to day. I really hope that DTTG 3 is breathtaking. Some posts let me think it will be the same as DTTG 2.X with some minor internal changes but I hope I’m wrong.
Missing roadmaps leads to high expectations and maybe disappointment. I hope not.
I got no problem with subscription but I want them to be valuable for both sides.
Other products I buy that switched to a license model just died. Once the license was in place generating money no matter what, the companies lost interest in fixing bugs and adding features … I’m looking at you indigo!
Lets hope DTTG isn’t the same.
Well I think there’re two camps of apps switching to subscription:
-
Stagnant development makes it not profitable enough with one-time fees for major upgrades. The subscription guarantees continuous revenue for a while from core user base even when the developers just sit there doing nothing.
-
Ambitious development plan requires steady income.
Some apps are probably a bit if both. But a lot of them unfortunately fell into the first category. (Looking at PDF Expert, Airmail…)
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Me also extremely disappointed with mobile version of DT + don’t understand why it is taking so long to update. Want more money$ for application not updated in almost a year is ridiculous + no dark mode when 2021 is few days away + like using application from year 2000. AAARGHHHHHHHH!
There were far more important things than dark mode to be dealt with.
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Appreciate challenges face running a business, it is not easy but look at record of DTTG updates + number of complains in forum on DTTG delay, be good to in return appreciate frustrations of users + DTTG updates taking too long. App Store clearly shows long delays in updates, lack of feature improvements + gaps in bug rectifications. Record speaks for itself.
Updates take as long as they take, given the size of our company, our development workload, and the myriad things we have to tend to.
And if you look at everything we have done as a company - and DEVONthink To Go is not our only application - we accomplish an extraordinary amount of work and support for a small company. So yes, our record actually does speak for itself.
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I’m not sure what your point is here. We’re talking about DTTG specifically. Are you expecting your users of one product to empathise you on how much work you poured into other products?
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LOL, love some of products though can also see how defensive they can get. Personally read some really good feedbacks from your customers. I would have gladly take their feedbacks since they invest time to give. Better then them switched to competitor without telling you why. I run a small business as well and take customers feedbacks seriously rather than being defensive. Even Bezos put customer feedbacks way in front. He even has an empty chair 
in meeting to remind everyone about customers. Though my business is probably 0.0000001 of his. That’s just me and my 2 cents 
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I would like the to point that the criticism here is not about the Devs, most of people here thinking they are doing great job in general (especially with DT3)
The frustration is in biggest part caused by how the DTTG is so average given the DT3 is so stellar
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I might repeat myself but: we are aware of this and we are working as good as we can to rectify it. We just have to distribute our time and attention to where it is most needed at a given time. But, be assured, we spent a lot of energy in the last eight months on DEVONthink To Go to lay the groundworks for future, continuous improvement.
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Not for me. For me, they are “archiving” apps (if that term even exists). Which is not to say that for you they may be notetaking apps.
Texteditor? Pages? Numbers? Preview? Your definition of “notetaking app” seems a bit too broad.
I sympathize with the first part of this sentence;-) But that’s true for many software today, e.g. products to organize your photos: There are keywords, stars, labels, tags, title, description, file name, what not … And no clear explanation what might be useful for which purpose.
Although I like DT and DTTG well enough, I still use other software as well. Notably Hazel which is still more adapt in renaming files. Or Drafts for MD editing (really, why would I use an archiving program for editing?). Or Emacs for programming 
Actually, I do not mind so much that I can’t do everything in one program. The more versatile they get, the more complicated and difficult to navigate (think Photoshop, for example). But then I’m more of a Unix guy: used to tools that do one simple task well and can be chained to work together.
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Yes! maybe I wasn’t clear - this post was not to blame the developers for the underdevelopment of any app.
It is just that looking from outside it much harder to to see the effort when the final product isn’t there yet. While I currently try to finalise my Phd thesis I could really empathise with the process you probably gone through 