DT4 - "more flexible and modern license model"?

Tone is notoriously difficult to read correctly on an internet forum, so I say this with caution, but that comes across as somewhat hostile and I don’t appreciate it.

I asked a question upthread about whether DTech would increase its communication levels re development plans and timings and was told that was not planned. I think that customers can reasonably ask to be kept better informed given the price increase to stay up to date. Just my opinion of course, as I clearly stated. Customer support across my 13 years using DtPro has been excellent, as I also clearly stated in the post you selectively quoted.

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I don’t really see what relevance Adobe has to this discussion. They’re not a competitor, as far as I know. As for expectation management, I’m very happy to manage mine and let you manage yours, and we can both still be civil to each other.

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In the past 5 years there have been - I don’t know, 10, 15, 20? - updates for DT3. And in pretty much every one of them there have been bug fixes, if you believe the respective release notes.

… as it was in the past.

So… no.

With all respect, excuse me, but I’ve been a DT customer for 14 years now, and I’ve paid the price they asked for ongoing updates within each major version I paid for. Where do you get off insinuating that I don’t?

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That, if users decide to let expire the licence extension to receive updates (sorry that I keep using this expression till @chrillek will come up with a better one), with an ongoing app development with new feature updates, a buggy feature will be installed and the fixing update will be released after the licence extension is expired? In the long run: 100 percent.

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Likewise I’m a DT customer, and I’ve paid the price they asked under the old license model
Going forward, I will pay the price they ask under the new license model
Looking forward to more frequent major updates

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If you have “been a customer for 14 years”, I would say you’ve seen no evidence that we would handle things in any way other than fairly and professionally. Don’t borrow trouble. :slight_smile:

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I have Curio and Tinderbox, both of which follow this licensing model. I’ve had them for about 9 years and I’m several versions behind on both.

None of the “ifs” have ever happened. Not to say they never will, but I see no reason for anxiety. And I’d like the DT folks to make enough money to keep DT going.

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  1. ?? Once a license expires, by definition the user is no longer entitled to receive any further updates. This is therefore a non-issue
  2. If a feature update is truly so problematic to render the software unusable, the developer will likely issue a fix soon after the release
  3. Another (completely different) scenario is that the (DT) license expires and a subsequent macOS update introduce compatibility issues. Still, users are not forced to immediately update to the latest version of macOS. They can wait and check online if any issues are reported. Moreover, they could also install the last properly working environment in a virtual machine.

So, there are ways to mitigate the (very low) risk of these apocalyptic scenarios… the last resorts being biting the bullet and paying the dreaded $99 (or whatever amount that is) or… stopping using the software, if the added value it provides is not enough to justify paying for the new release.

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FWIW, this is the much more common scenario. Across pretty much every major application that I use, Apple-introduced compatibility issues are vastly more common than showstopper bugs.

My advice: don’t upgrade MacOS unless you are also current with or prepared to upgrade all your critical software.

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Every time a major macOS update comes out, I have a list of my most mission-critical software (including DEVONthink) and I verify if the software has been updated to be compatible with the new version of macOS, and how much it will cost me to upgrade those software packages.

If critical software isn’t yet compatible, or it’s going to cost more than I can budget, I hold off on the macOS update.

GPGSuite uses a similar service contract model. I renew my service license when they release a new feature I must have–or once they have compatibility with a new version of macOS. DEVONthink will get renewed every year, for at least the near future.

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It was with this feeling and expectation that I came here to see how far the development of the final DT4 version had progressed.

But then I saw the new license model.

And, to mention it again, in case nobody has done so in the last few hours: If you want to have the same status as before: to have paid for a period within which the software is kept up to date bugfixing-wise by the developers - the price has gone up about 5 times overnight. Period.

And I’ve seen the two types of response repeatedly given to users asking about it:

“Oh, I couldn’t be happier with the price rice!”

And:

“Who are you to not want to pay the brave developers for their great work???”

…followed within minutes by little hearts.

I have to admit, these two words were not the very first that came to mind.

The old license model made the user pay for a period of a major version, at the end of which there was a perhaps a little dusty but stable final minor version. Then a new main version was released, which opened up a new period in which the user could follow the developers if he was convinced by the new features or simply wanted to support them.

In the new license model, there is no longer such a thing as an old and a new main version in the traditional understanding, i.e. no stable final sub-version of the old one.

In the classic model, in which you purchase a main version including all updates, the developers convince their customers that a paid upgrade to the next main version is worthwhile.

In the new license model, which is spreading everywhere, it is not in the developers’ interest to have something like a dusty but stable last previous version. Instead, users should be left at the end of “their” period with a version that is just unpolished enough to awaken the desire for further bug fixes and maintenance updates.

DT promises that they will OF COURSE NOT take advantage of THAT. Is this the part about the “fair” promise?

And so if it’s not about pushing existing users into subscription-like regular payments, what’s the point of the change? At least for the coming year, sticking with the old model would probably be even more lucrative than the new one. I would say that after 6 years and the consistently good experience, almost every existing customer would have bought the update to DT4. In addition, the increased media attention during the version upgrade would certainly have attracted many new customers, who would now have to opt for an app for “100 bucks per year” instead of “100 bucks every few years”.

DT is completely at liberty to release paid major versions at a faster pace.

I bought the update to DTP 4 to honor the work of the developers up to this point. And, so soon after the Feast of the Passion of the Christ, to honor the developers as Americans for also bearing our cross and showing that people like Mr. Trump and his honorable family are doing what they said they would do if elected to power: Attacking and seriously damaging the economy, academia and the political system within weeks. Inflation explodes under their lash and is then further and recursively fueled by people multiplying their prices with reference to inflation.

Hopefully a graphic warning to the world not to let such people come to power.

However, I will not be installing DT4. With the migration of data from 3 to 4, I would be stuck in the update hamster wheel; as far as I understand it, there is no way back to v3. And it is not yet clear what the forthcoming DT2go4, certainly also with this new license model, will mean for the continued usability of DT2go3. It will probably lead to another regular “renewal” of a “license extension”.

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  1. You are free to have your own opinions and decisions on things, as everyone has. This thread has 371 comments so far, so it should be clear we aren’t hindering discussion.
  2. The developers are not American.
  3. Please leave political rhetoric out of the discussion. There are many people of different beliefs here: political, social, and religious so this is not the place for such declarations. There are other places on the Internet for those topics.
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  1. I see that and I appreciate it.

  2. Your companies adress is (following the imprint):

DEVONtechnologies, LLC
P.O. Box 96
Coeur d’Alene, ID, 83816
U.S.A.

  1. Out of point 2 and reading your principles, and following the argumentation regarding inflation as reason for the price hike I saw a very direct connection to the themes discussed.
    Sorry 'bout that.

Yes, the company is headquartered in the US. I am one of two US employees, the other is the comptroller in Idaho. The other four, including the founders (CEO/CTO), are European.

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I can’t believe this thread is still going! Guys, if you don’t want to upgrade, don’t upgrade. It’s really that simple. Stop crying about it.

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Tip: You can restore/undo the deletion for a certain amount of time. (Not sure exactly when it expires)

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Excellent! I looked again after seeing this. Good man!

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And a deleted post disappears completely after some time.

I was able to recycle the old one. Thanks for pointing it out. The only reason for it was I don’t understand why people are still bitching about it. The change is what it is. I said in some other thread I don’t know when that even if DT went to a sub model, I’d pay it even if I didn’t like it. It’s that mission-critical.

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And btw @BLUEFROG trial tomorrow! My safari drag and drop still doesn’t work! :joy: