… yes; same experience here . so thanks for sharing some more, that I didn´t know.
so, I´ll keep following your insights, also hoping this thread might turn up some more options…
that is also, because I realized my current search is structurally very similar to yours, though the bottleneck for me is tags/metadata and interoperability btw DT and any satellite note-app.
the two structural reasons why I am looking the same way as you in principle (i.e. feeling the need for a supplementing note-app) are
better/denser display of search results from note set (+ esp. having thumbnails in list views, as like you I am a visual person… )
swift interaction, that is faster/frictionless input and retrieval of a note (sub-)set (especially ‘on the go’, that is: on ios).
– while 1) could in principle be solved within DT (should there be an overhaul of UI sometime and a shift from ‘information=text’) 2) is also related to the fact that DT lends itself by design to storing large piles of heterogenous data and thus is becoming ‘slow’ in use (even if fast in principle), esp. with view to use on mobile ios (with probable need of syncing large amounts of data).
like you, I´d love to see a situation where DT is not only my go-to app in terms of data-intelligence but also in terms of note-input and quick-(visual-)search, but I also do not expect that to come about for those structural reasons (heterogenuous piled data in DT; DT´s notion of ‘information = text’). thus my search that seems related to yours.
for me likewise the final candidates to serve as ‘pipe’ in and out of DT (across osx + ios) are Bear and Ulysses. but in both cases (as has been pointed out) there is no (good) way to directly pool data with DT. but then there is another problem/point of friction in relation to some thing you mention (and which constitutes my prime concern): tags/metadata.
the problem I encountered in relation to any DT/Bear or DT/Ulysses combination and in relation to tags/keywords is twofold:
there is no (easy) way to use Tags/Keywords from one side on the other; thus any work put into tagging/keywording has to be done twice (this might rather be a problem for my scenario than yours)
keywords/tags are not “searchable” the same way note content is even within DT, as DT treats note content and metadata as seperate information streams in principle (which – again – is related to DTs philosophy about original text as main information and metadata as kind of secondary information). maybe by ‘searchable’ you mean adressable by the tagging system; or “searchable” in term of advanced search (if you happen to exactly know by heart the tags you attributed) … but in anyway this seems/feels to me like another friction point contained in the set-up, as other external note apps (like Bear and Ulysses) allow for one global search that likewise includes content and tags/keywords while DT consciously choses to behave differently.
I am aware that all this might not directly help your case. but I felt that it might be interesting collating some of the perspectives on criteria, options and also possible frictions in terms of a “Favorite External Editor for Notes in macOS & iOS” in addition to DT.
… also this is to express: I am hoping that your intensive search might also bring to light some good option for external editors with regards to my own search, even if it is focussed on compatibility of tag-/keyword systems between DT and any external note-editor…
You already know that you just needed to change the default extension for iA to .md, good.
Now, don’t make any iA repository outside DEVONthink. Just create your notes in .md format inside DTPO, and when they grow larger and more complex - switch to iA. For that, make one more step: in Finder, switch.md as the default for iA.
For your pics workflow. You may take your photo and edit it in the native Photo app, or any other photo editor of your choice, making your text notes in parallel with iA or DT. When you finish editing photo, hit share and upload it to Dropbox. Then copy the link and paste to iA. Since now on, you’ll see your pic rendered in your iA docs on OS X and iOS. You can continue edit you picture from Dropbox directly, using Mac or iOS device and your favorite image editor at any time, from any place.
Note, that you can edit text in DT or iA, where it is more handy at the moment. But once you’ve chosen to render pics with iA - stick with it further when working with them. This is because for now DTPO and DTTGo render only pics from within their own databases, using internal links. I think it is better to choose rendering pics from DT base - no need for the internet. Finally it is about where from you want to make your HTMLs or PDFs: from DT, or from iA.
To the moment, the main problems with DT markdown are (iA doesn’t have them):
Bad tables rendering. No any simple math in table (like totals and etc.)
No math formulas rendering
Table of contents token renders bad links on iOS.
These are the major problems (well, they are if you really need it) I’ve noticed so far, which can affect the quality of your output docs, like PDFs.
Tags are at the heart of how I structure things too. My entire Evernote database is structured by tags as is my DEVONthink databases. As such your concerns about living in two different apps for notes requiring duplicating your tagging work is something I greatly can sympathize with. This is another reason I, too, am hoping that the ultimate solution will come from future updates to the DEVONthink suite of apps.
I have found that my system is pretty functional as is in DEVONthink. I just hit a few roadblocks incorporating it into my workflow at work (hence why I am seeking advice here ).
I was really hoping that I might find an external editor on the iOS side that would allow me to keep my notes inside of DTTG and just open the note in the external editor when I need to perform a function that isn’t easy or possible in the DEVONthink product. This is what I have been doing on the macOS side with iA Writer and Omni Outliner, especially. I figured this solution may come from indexing an external folder in another app, or by being able to “round-trip” via document provider. I have been surprised that I have not found an easy solution to either one.
I can really relate to this point as well. Thankfully, Drafts 5 exists and is my preferred method to get text efficiently to any destination, including DEVONthink. It, unfortunately, does not solve my problems with picture notes.
As efficiency will remain a top priority for my note system, at this point, I will have to remain with one foot in the Evernote world and one in the DEVONthink world until I can find a solution that brings everything solely inside of DEVONthink.
yes – it is doing it´s core task of info-management quite well! no doubt!
and thanks for the Drafts 5 hint! these hints are something useful coming out of this thread for me; especially as all things here are discussed in terms of means and ends (beyond singular tools). I can see it possibly making a way into my workflow bec of it´s capture+process capacities – but then it doesn´t seem to solve my issue which is as much about retrieval and display of results as about quick capture.
but in general all this is very helpful for me as well to get my head around how to build a workflow around DT where it lacks some kind of specific functionality.
the ‘in-place’ vs ‘round-trip’ idea coming out of this discussion (thx to scottlougheed) was also helpful to me. as you say indexing external folders comes in handy and can be a critica bridging-mechanism, which is true (and is also why I also rely heavily on indexing vs importing for the core of my files/data). with regards to my short-list of Ulysses + Bear it can help in the case of Ulysses, as Ulysses folders can be indexed/shared this way (the drawback/friction being here that DT can´t display the proper titles bec of Ulysses proprietory mechanism; so ‘only’ the content comes in – but then folder-structure of Ulysses is retained at least in principle)
in relation to Bear I have come to the conclusion that in some cases (like Bear) the fall-back option is really going back to ‘manual labor’ and a ‘shuffle’ solution (adding to ‘round-tripping’ + ‘in-place-editing’ ). I have found no better solution as to export all Bear notes to a folder ‘by hand’, which then in turn is indexed by DT. the good news is that a sweeping replace of the exported Bear-notes will leave intact the internal DT-information/-structures. thus when you worked with the notes in DT (made an alias/replicant or assigned keywords) it will be retained. so, in some cases this kind of ‘shuffle’-workflow might also be a solution of sorts.
– for me an interesting fringe effect: Bear can export its keywords (which are not osx-compatible tags) as part of the note-content! … this way you have to re-apply these as tags, if needed within DT. but as a side benefit the tags are really globally searchable in DT. looking for ideal supplements and hitting all kinds of roadblocks and points of friction I have learned to embrace and love these fringe-benefits…
– will keep following what this thread throws up; and in case I find some good new contenders for DT-notetaking-supplement I will report of course.
I thought it is well known and you are working on it… If you want I could sum up some things about DT markdown, which force me to use iA. It would be so nice if I could exclude iA from my workflow.
I just need to know how exactly should I “file an issue”. All of them are easy to check, I can just describe it in short.
Note, I’m not sure if this or that feature was intended to be as such or is a bug, so I just put it as is. And I admit that may be I just don’t know the way to make it work correct.
DT Pro Office:
Lists. Don’t hold tabs: if you hit Enter at the end of the line, the cursor goes not to the same level with the next marker, but just goes to the very beginning of the next line.
Headers and formatting doesn’t show up: if you make some text strong (add two asterisks from each side), editor doesn’t make it strong (in edit mode, in preview - ok). It is just to make editing more comfortable, like make all MD tags greyed out to make it easier to read the text, especially links. They can be very long and make it hard to read and edit the text. Suggestion (in edit mode): grey out all service info (tags, links and so on) and highlight all formatted text appropriately (headers, styles).
Table formatting is basic aligning, no any lines. Suggestion: table header - in strong, and horizontal row lines
No simple math in tables. It you put e.g. =(total) in the lower row, you will not get the value.
Embedded images from Internet. They don’t work. Only internal files.
DT to Go:
All of the above
Problem with {{TOC}} token. It does assemble the headers, but when you try to click any of these links - nothing happens.
Hi Silverstone. Sorry I missed your post before when I was responding to others. I really appreciate the in-depth instructions.
I am not quite understanding something, though. When I try to copy a link from an image I put in my Dropbox (ie. dropbox.com/s/someimage/IMG_1374.JPG?dl=0) nothing happens. I just see a link.
This is the same in both iA Writer on iOS and macOS, as I tried to copy a link and paste in iA Writer on both devices. I even tried putting a “/” at the front: /Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life
If I open the local Dropbox folder on my mac and drag the image into iA Writer, then the image renders. I see the image file is actually being added to the local folder inside of iA Writer, though.
Sorry if I am missing something very basic. Surprisingly, I didn’t find any step by step instructions on this process online either.
In the end, I still fear this may be a lot of extra steps to get images into a note when compared with how fast I can currently do it in Evernote. I am still intrigued to give a shot, though.
And we are making progress. I was able to figure out to add my Dropbox folder as a location in the folder section in the Preferences in iA Writer. Now I am able to see my Dropbox folder within in iA Writer and can drag and drop images into a iA Writer file. I can even see these images render on the iA Writer iOS app.
I cannot figure out how to do the same thing from the iOS side; that is, I cannot figure out how to add an image from Dropbox to a file in iA Writer on iOS. There does not appear to be a way to add my drop box library in iOS like I did on the mac. I can navigate to my drop box folder as if I were going to try and open a file from Dropbox in iA Writer, but it will not let me select anything. Also, if I just copy the link from Dropbox on my iOS device and paste it into the iA Writer in iOS it just shows the link. It does not render an image.
I made progress on the mac side, but it looks like I still have some work to do on the iOS side.
I think this is the problem with the access to this file on Dropbox, because when I click this link I get 404 message…
Here I provided a test md file with two images from Dropbox. If they were all incapsulated, the size would be 1.7Mb. Now it is just 417 bytes. Try to open it in iA on Mac OS or iOS.
Remember, if you want to see pics in DT, you have to copy them to any open base and use standard markdown tegs for embedded images, where link - is the internal DT database link. In this case you’ll also see you images rendered on Mac OS as well as on iOS. Test Markdown File.md.zip (413 Bytes)
Sorry, that link wasn’t meant to clickable. It isn’t a real destination. I was just trying to give an example of the structure of the link I was embedding in iA Writer.
When I click the real link myself, it does, redirect me to my picture in Dropbox via a webpage. In iA Writer the image is not rendered, though. I just see the link.
Thanks for explaining the way that internal DEVONthink markdown links work. I will keep this in mind as a possible workflow as well.
I imagine you are referencing grabbing the DEVONthink Item Link from a photo that is already in DEVONthink? The part I am having trouble with is these are iA Writer files that are referenced in DEVONthink. They actually live in iCloud in my iA Writer folder. As such, I can see the photos in iA Writer that I insert. This is expected as both the photo and the markdown document are in iCloud. In DEVONthink, when I look at the referenced markdown document, all I see is the file path.
Not a big deal. I think this is all expected behavior and the workarounds to get images to work inside DEVONthink through an app like iA Writer still are not worth it. I am still just using Evernote at work and DEVONthink for everything at home. I will keep searching for an efficient third-party solution, but I have a feeling I may ultimately just be waiting for the DTTG app to get an update where adding photos to a note is much more streamlined.
This “Notes and Inline Images” problem switching from Evernote to DT2GO forced me to change my workflow. Now I collect all data (e. g. images, tables, notes (whatever format)) within a folder. Thats it. If I want to have a note with images I use markdown and refer to the images wihin the same folder.
Another change: I convert all images to PDF. No exception. This makes it easy to use the annotation feature of DT2Go to make annotations on my “images” - incl. inserting new pages for more annotations. If I take a photo while on the road I just use a scan App to create a PDF instead of a plain image - the PDF is then sent to DT2GO.
I’ve learned to change my workflow - changing DT2go wont work
@Airestocky, I realize this is a post from 2018, but I found your comments about how your changed your workflow to collect all data within a folder to be helpful. I was hoping you could elaborate.
By folder, I presume you meant a DEVONthink group? Do you create a Markdown note using the sorter and then add the images & tables?
I also appreciate your other suggestion:
What is your current favorite scan App? I really like the way the Evernote iPhone App “add camera image” document mode captures a page of text and automatically trims the non-page edges away. Is there another one you’ve found that is better (or at least as good). I, too, am experimenting with switching from Evernote to DEVONthink, and am trying to find some non-Evernote “best alternatives”.
sorry for being late
but I switched back to Evernote (incl. Tasks now) because the new workflow (to workaround the DT2go limitations) was much to complicated (= fault-prone) and inefficient (= time consuming) for me - therefore I didn’t look into this forum anymore (or at least rarely)
. so thanks for sharing some more, that I didn´t know.
).
