I'm drowning in documents. Plz help!

DEVONthink Scenarios
1

Howdy,

I don’t have a Devon program yet. I’m looking at Devon Think.

My problem: the number of documents I have lying around increases exponentially with each new hard drive increase. In the days of 200 MB hard drives, organizing documents was easy. I had a few folders, threw the documents in, and I was done. Now, with hundereds of gigabytes, I’m awash in manuals, articles, receipts, clips, notes, word docs, and spreadsheets! I can’t keep up.

I’m trying to grasp how Devon Think works, and how it might help. I’ve used Filemaker quite a bit, and I’ve used iView Media quite a bit, so I understand the database paradigm. My questions are:
1) Does Devon Think put the whole item into its database, or just a link to the item?
2) If it puts the whole item in its database, please confirm - I can then throw away the original?
3) If I drag an item out of Devon Think, is the new item exactly the same as the item that went in, i.e. with same creation date, file size, owner, etc.?
4) If you put web pages in for later reference, does it put the actual data in, or just reload the page every time you look at your database. I want to create my own archive of important information that can’t be deleted.
5) How do you personally keep organized? Do you create multiple databases? Do you create multiple folders in one database? Do you sort a special way? What tricks do you use?

Please help me with that “aha” moment, to go from a pile of documents to an organization system I can’t believe I ever lived without.

Thanks very much in advance.
Paul

P.S. yes, I did try the demo. no, I still don’t understand. it timed out before I got a grasp on things. so, I’m a little slow, so what? :stuck_out_tongue:

2
  1. Does Devon Think put the whole item into its database, or just a link to the item?

You can do either. I put the whole item in and keep the original, but I’m a packrat.

  1. If it puts the whole item in its database, please confirm - I can then throw away the original?

Yes, you may throw it away. But make a nightly copy of the database, in case the first one gets corrupted.

  1. If I drag an item out of Devon Think, is the new item exactly the same as the item that went in, i.e. with same creation date, file size, owner, etc.?

No, the creation and modification dates are the moment of dragging. Same deal if you export in the various file formats.

  1. If you put web pages in for later reference, does it put the actual data in, or just reload the page every time you look at your database. I want to create my own archive of important information that can’t be deleted.

You are storing the URL, which reloads every time. If you want an exact dated copy, say of a news story, use the Services menu in the browser to append a plain/rich note or save as a Web archive.

  1. How do you personally keep organized? Do you create multiple databases? Do you create multiple folders in one database? Do you sort a special way? What tricks do you use?

In DTP, I create multiples because my projects are so different that I don’t want to get search results from all of them. In DN, I just have multiple folders. I don’t do any special sorts. Tricks…I experiment with the drag and drop feature a lot. I take chunks of a file and drag them out to create new entries, and then re-label or re-file them in new folders. This helps when I’ve created a “brainstorm” file and then want to reorder it.

Other writers in the forum will give you other answers. You may personalize your use of the DT products as you wish. Good luck!

3
  1. Does Devon Think put the whole item into its database, or just a link to the item?

You can do either. I put the whole item in and keep the original, but I’m a packrat.

I’m wondering about the advantages and disadvantages of linking to text vs. copying to the database. Am I right that you cannot search text that isn’t in the database? That is, the search features won’t pay attention to what is merely linked–is that right?

Suppose I decide to copy thousands of items in the database, is there a point in which Dth-pro will get bogged down, swollen with too many articles, and slow down functionality? The general question is, I guess, are there disadvantages to putting whole items in?

Thanks,

Andre

4

Ariew:

Don’t use the File > Link to command (at least not for any supported file types). The text will not be imported and so cannot be searched.

I would recommend that you set your preference for importing images and PDF/PS files to copy them to the database folder (check PDFKit for PDF & PS files). After a test import of each file type, check the new document’s Info panel and make sure the Path leads to the database’s Files folder. This has the advantage that these files are actually stored in the Finder, and Spotlight will index them.

Text files (all types), HTML, XML and Web Archives will be stored in the database itself.

Word files will have their text read, but the original files will remain externally stored outside the database (this will change in version 2.)

DT/DT Pro will accommodate very large databases with gigabytes of content. Pour it on. Just make sure you have sufficient space for the database and for Mac OS X’s swap and temporary files Apple recommends that 10 to 15 percent of your boot volume space should be free for swap files; some recommend 15% as the minimum.

I’ve seen one report of a DT Pro database containing 24 GB image files. The user reports that it takes about 90 seconds to initialize and open, but then functions normally.

DT Pro version 2 will use a different database structure that stores all content in the Finder inside its package, and will use less memory and run even faster searches.

5

Thanks for that comprehensive reply! I see why you are the go-to guy.

Thanks,

Andre Ariew

6

Thank you howarth for that helpful information.

I’m still curious of anybody else has any more tips or tricks in answer to my question number 5
How do you personally keep organized? Do you create multiple databases? Do you create multiple folders in one database? Do you sort a special way? What tricks do you use?

I’m still looking for the “killer ap”.

Bill DeVille, how do you use DT?

Thanks again,
Paul

7

A quick follow-up: Would you recommend against using “Convert to Rich Text”?

8

ricki:

Do NOT also check the Convert to Rich Text option. That will override the instruction to copy the PDF to the database Files folder. In that case, you will only capture the text, and the PDF will have an external link only.

In other words, the PDF won’t be copied into the Files folder if you check the capture as rich text option.

9

Bill you really scare me when you say version 2 will have the different file structure so that Spotlight will be able to search it. You just came out with V1, I paid for the upgrade, and I figured you would be adding Spotlight support to the Pro version as quickly as possible. In fact I’ve pretty much stopped using Pro (switched over to MacJournal which added Spotlight support immediately and for free) until that support comes out in DevonThink Pro. Now you talk about V2???

Meaning MORE MONEY to get Spotlight support?

If that’s the case, then maybe I should ask for my money back all-together, as this whole DovonTHINK experience is getting kind of expensive!

That really sucks.

Charles

10

[quote=“akdude”]
Thank you howarth for that helpful information.

I’m still curious of anybody else has any more tips or tricks in answer to my question number 5
How do you personally keep organized? Do you create multiple databases? Do you create multiple folders in one database? Do you sort a special way? What tricks do you use?

Paul, I’ve argued with a friend who uses DTP about this and we both have our ways, his using lots of folders, or groups, and separating file types (text, images, etc) into dbs, and I keeping folder use general and minimal and using dbs for subject type. It probably reflects how we use Finder folders, but here’s my own structure in DTP:

A set of dbs:
Articles
Documentation
Personal
Sites
Test

My chosen default db is ‘articles’ which contains downloaded articles from the web, classified into folders:
environment
finance
health
politics
society
technology

These articles are imported as rich text from selections on pages via the Services menu command [Cmd shf ) ] so there’s no file left on disk. All I want here is a db which is searchable and takes full advantage of the ‘See Also’ command at the bottom of a file window (which is why I don’t need too many groups, or folders).

The next db, ‘documentation’ is not imported - it’s merely a record of doc files in various Finder folders and is a convenient way to find and browse them. They’re linked and have to be sychronized periodically, the db even rebuilt as DTP doesn’t yet reject files which aren’t existing anymore.

The next two, Personal and Sites, are looser. Personal, because it’s just a scrapbook and contains a mix of formats either imported or linked to (Devonote also gets used for scrap omm but DTP does more), and Sites because some is imported for reference and even ongoing work and some is only referred to in the Finder, on disk, depending on type of file. It’s a good blend.

‘Test’ is just that - for trial and error, checking out advantages and disadv before starting maybe another db, or whatever.

This is just one example of a user’s usage, the point being there are many variations and it will take a little time, experiment and personal/professional taste to find what works for you. Another point being that likely one or more of the methods will work for you, especially if you have a lot of files - one advantage being the more you have the better ol’ ‘See Also’ works.

Rich

11

I’ve also been working on how to set up my DT databases and internal structure to work best for me. Here’s what I’ve done so far. I have several administrative activities I’m involved with at the university, as well as patient care and consulting work, so some of my activities overlap, others can be kept separate and treated as individual “projects” or whatever term you’d like to use.

My main DT file is called MISC (miscellaneous) and is the default respository of any e-mails to be saved, interesting things I find on the web, policies to be kept, documents received - anything that doesn’t fit into the other, project-specific databases. The group structure in MISC is a mirror of my Finder folder structure. I used the import feature to pull in all of my documents under my master Finder folder and DT preserved my folder structure in setting up the DT groups. I have subsequently added a few groups as I refine the structure within DT to enhance the ‘SEE ALSO’ function.

I have a second DT database soley devoted to medical literature - virtually all PDF’s. Because I keep the PDFs in a dedicated Finder folder, I just use the “Import to database” feature of DT - I don’t have them saved to a database folder because I think that would duplicate the file on my disk and I don’t need that, as the files were already saved to my REFERENCES folder using Finder. I do have DT convert the PDFs to plain text on import so that I can search the document and annotate it if needed. I do have Acrobat to annotate PDFs but doing it within DT is faster. Note however that, when I do that, I can’t then open the PDF with Preview, presumably because I’ve changed it. So I don’t annotate the documents very often - sometimes I use ‘COMMENTS’ if I want to add some bits of information to the document.

My third DT database is soley for reports I do as part of my consulting work. So far, I’ve been saving only the final versions of each report, which are in PDF format. I’m still deciding if I want to save the drafts (which I write using Pages and save as RTFs during development). This allows me to quickly find paragraphs in one report that I might want to use or refer to in a new report.

So far, this structure of a default, general repository database and two very specific, limited scope databases has been working well. Keeps the files to a relatively small size and the searches don’t yield a lot of extraneous results.

Good luck,

M. Marrin

12

I’m a student and i have ONE BIG database containing ALL the documents with regard to my studies. If you intend to make use of DEVONthinks socalled A.I. features (which are quite interesting - but only poorly documented :imp: ) this makes sense, because they work only within the open database. I use some extra databases for private matters (hobbys, computer knowledge, …)

I have created five main-folders in my big database:

  • Resources
  • Projects
  • Ideas
  • Drop Box
  • Bookmarks

The Resources Folder contains nearly every document, web-page, snippet, clipping, etc., sorted in many subfolders BY SUBJECT (this is important for the “A.I.” to work).
The Projects Folder contains my own writings sorted by project and replicants of related resources.
The Ideas Folder contains outlines of upcoming projects.
The Drop Box is the Folder in which every new Document is stored before it’s classified (you can specify in the preferences that every new clipping is stored here USEFUL TRICK).
In the Bookmarks folder i store Web-Links…

Hope that helps…
Greetings, Louise