Liquidtext or MarginNotes3

[Calhistorian]

As an update, I have moved beyond LiquitText for one big reason and one small reason.
Big: As mentioned by @korm the LT workspace to the side of your PDF document is proprietary and not transferable (and is a part of premium purchase). It is REALLY cool to be able to draw connections and have a free form workspace.
Small: The UI/UX, outside of the pinch pages, is not all that pleasing. I am a sucker for aesthetics, and LT does not quite cut it. They have been spending a lot of time moving cross-platform as I understand it, and therefore I felt as though my use-case was not their priority (which is fine).

Now, when I am doing a deep dive into research, I instead use MarginNote3. The biggest reason why? — I can export the mind map/outline in OPML format and use in other applications, including DEVONthink on the Mac (though not in DTTG). So, in essence, LiquidText’s only saving grace (for my use-case) is the pinch feature — which admittedly is unique and powerful, but it comes bottled with features I don’t like. My use-case demands an extreme amount of cross-app, cross-doc connections. In essence I need my PDFs, annotations, notes, etc to be my “second brain” as opposed to using this software for discrete projects.

For @AndrewM, I would just use a standard PDF editor (like MarginNote3, PDFpen, PDF Expert, PDF Viewer, or LT without the LT workspace, ), open the DT database in the Files App and make your annotations there, and they will be saved back to the DT file (you can’t start in DTTG, you MUST always start in the receiving application/editor when using iOS/iPadOS — at least for a while).

[Hens]

An update, finally soon there will Beta available for LT for Mac. still cant believe it after two years of pushing the Dev

[nnettsplace]

A bit late to the conversation, but…

I previously used both. Swore by MN before I found DT. Played with LiquidText while I was in-between workflow lanes but finally opted for DT and PDF Expert, and if I want a mind map, iThoughtsX. (Sometimes I use the markup within DT on the iPad. But usually I opt for PDF Expert.)

I don’t like having notes in separate boxes invisible to the all-seeing panoptic eye (DT). I can’t point DT at either MN or LT and have it see annotations within those apps, so that’s a no-go for me. (Same frustration with Scrivener at the moment, but I’m not ready to let that one go, yet.) Also, getting notes out of MN and LT and into text format is a pain. With PDF Expert, since the file stays in DT, I don’t have to point DT at anything. Everything is nice and simply tucked in.

Right now my workflow is to mark up a PDF in PDF Expert on my iPad (by opening the file in PDFEx which can see my file structure in DT), and then to go back to my computer to make notes on my notes. Because that helps me remember my research, I don’t mind the redundancy. (I can’t remember any notes I take if I type them directly.)

I can see all of the markup on the PDF, and there are no distinct files to link to. It all sits in the in-file annotations in the right sidebar.

If I want to search for something in DevonThink, it picks up the in-file annotations just as simply as any other text. In the screenshot, I searched for “Concord,” which was in one of the notes (“Details” pane) that I typed from my handwritten markup. And if I click on the specific instance, it takes me straight to that page.

Since I stopped using MN & LT before now, I’m not certain how the search function works within DT for the associated exported files. Maybe it’s the same, once you export the notes from the proprietary format. I just don’t like that extra step + the associating.

[Ellenm]

I have been wasting so much time trying out these other apps. You have gotten to the real issue for me. I need to write on the text and write notes later. That fits my thought process. I am not collating multiple documents, and when I am, I should use those apps. But just to create reading notes, I need to use your method. Today I found Mendeley which provides free tools for annotating document. I bought PaperShip for something like 15 dollars. That is so much less than paying for subscription. Now, I can get down to work. Thank you. Ellen

[Crisrich58]

Do you (or anyone else reading this thread) know if this works also with PDFPen (Pro)? I have this app already and it would be nice if I didn’t have to buy PDF Expert

[SebMacV]

I am pretty sure that PDFExpert on iOS is free with basic functions which includes accessing DT via Files and the full annotations suite. They have a pricey Pro subscription (fullblown editing functions) which I have never tried. I set up the app last night after ditching iAnnotate which doesn’t play nice with Files and so far it looks great.

[benoit.pointet]

I am using PDF Expert free (that is, w/o pro subscription) to read and annotate PDFs stored in DTTG. Works like a charm: i just open from PDF expert the doc in the DTTG hierarchy and start reading annotating. Any change to it is directly reflected in DTTG.

PDF Expert free doesn’t provide a lot more PDF functionalities than DTTG afaik, but the experience is nicer.

[valente]

I’ve also been struggling (for a long time now) to find a good workflow re: pdf files annotation.

Like many others, my regular research workflow relies on: (1) collect data > (2) organize data and generate ideas > (3) research writing. (An adaptation of the Zettelkasten system.)

For this I use a set of applications and online resources:

(1) find data in metasearchers/repositories > Bookends (permanent storage and organisation of references; mostly pdf files, but also other formats or even just the physical book data) & DTP (web collecting data, images and graphics, others).

(2) read and annotate data collected. For this I need a pdf reader to annotate files, which remain in DTP or Bookends. Then I organize Reading Notes to be placed also on DTP, with links to Bookends.

Essentially I have three types of notes:

• Scratch notes: basically jots meant to be temporary (to delete after reuse in Concept Notes).
• Reading notes: for any type of data, including articles, books, vídeos, websites… This is why I need a good pdf reader app.
• Concept notes: organized data on specific subjects.

(3) write ideas/research/etc on Scrivener, with the final edit in Word or Nisus Writer Pro.

Now, my biggest problem by far has been choosing the pdf reader app.

I like PDF Expert, but I find its annotation features lacking, in particular the export ones. MarginNote and LiquidText [1]: I tried both and found them too cumbersome; plus, again, I didn’t like the export features. Tried PDFPen and never liked it (in fact, I find it way hyped).

Lately I have been using Highlights app, and I may finally have a winner (at least for the iPad; I’m still to try it on the Mac as I’ve been lazy re: macOS Catalina update):

• Easy to navigate in between the pdf and the notes (including having them side by side).
• Colors coding (I have yellow for general, green for references, grey for definitions, etc).
• Great exportation features (including customising the header of each annotation). (Also, it integrates quite well with DTP.)
• Sort annotations by color.
• Tables and images as annotations.
• And, for me the best discoveries in Highlights.app, lookup citations and smart copy them as BibTeX.

Unlike other apps that request annual subscriptions (looking at you, LiquidText and MarginNote!), Highlights also has monthly subscriptions for its Pro version (very much worth it). One can consistently try the app for a small amount of money and see if it fits the workflow.

[1]: In fact, after a few days of trying LiquidText I returned it. The +30€ for its license were not worth it for me.

[Hens]

Like the LT

[nnettsplace]

As long as PDFPen (Pro) works with the iOS files mechanism, then you should be fine.

(mechanism=where you can open a file within the pdf program from any of your files whether on the iPad/Phone or in the cloud. If your DT is password-protected, you may run into syncing issues, but ever since I took the password off, it’s worked great. Just be sure to open the file from within the PDF program; don’t make the mistake of exporting it from DT to the program; it’s head-shaking how long it took me to figure that out )

[AHaghgoo]

Has anyone who uses MN3 been able to develop a workflow between MN3 and DT? I’m trying to figure out a way to organize my annotations, but solely relying on the export feature for MN3 just creates more work than I desire.

Instead, I want to know if there are any workflows that would incorporate scripting by utilizing a specific DT applink/hashtag that I can then place in the notes of any highlight, which after exporting the notes, would be captured by the script to then automatically rename/reorder and place within an assigned folder in DT?

[nnettsplace]

Oh my. I didn’t like Highlights before because it doesn’t have (or I can’t find) a tool to write on the document, but with iOS 14’s use-your-pencil-in-any-textbox-for-handwriting-recognition combined with Highlights’ comment tool, I might like this better than PDFExpert. (!) I really detest subscription apps, though (if I wanted the pro features).

[valente]

Lately I have found Highlights more buggy (a few crashes opening new files, problems with highlighted text not being steady). I’m might not renew for awhile and try PDF Expert + DT3 to extract highlighted text.

Also—I’m waiting to see if DTTG next version brings more options re: reading and highlighting in the iPad.

[mrchild]

Check it out! MarginNote & LiquidText | How to use the Document Reader Tool?