Well, what are the answers where you come from?
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You’re very welcome and we are thinking of your boy and hope for a speedy recovery.
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Thanks Jim. He’s stable; neck surgery—crushed C5 replaced with a titanium spacer, fusion of C4, “C5”, and C6—successfully completed; crushed left foot reassembled. No paralysis 
though enormous pain.
I asked Sales about how I can extend my updates for 2 or 3 years and was surprised—actually laughed out loud—and disappointed when I was told, basically, “because you missed the opportunity now we won’t offer you the 2 or 3 year updates option anymore”.
I have a love-hate relationship with DT at present … I love the tool and yet the response from the sales team seems to conflict with the support team’s approach (I saw a notice, when I opened a ticket, saying, in effect, “We’re real humans, have families, and don’t do support 24×7”). Well, I’m also human (as is my son), and to be told, essentially, to get lost because I didn’t sign up for more updates in time is … shall we say, “discordant”.
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My update email reminder said this:
As a thank you for renewing before your current update period ends, we’re offering you a special 10% discount on your renewal. For even greater savings, consider extending your update period directly by two or three years with even greater discounts of up to 30% — these multi-year update extensions are exclusively available when you renew before your update time runs out.
This 2 or 3 year discounted deal is meant to entice people to maintain the licence. That’s common practice as it is critical for businesses like Devonthink to keep selling licences to develop their product (despite all the awesome capabilities, 15 years in, the steadiness and the relatively high prospects of DT not being abandoned during my times is my #1 killer feature because of the amount of effort I have vested into the DT ecosystem). I would think that even after the offer of timely renewal expired, they’d still be interested to sell a 3 year deal? If not, I wonder why. But one can no longer reasonably expect the discount.
“We’re real humans, have families, and don’t do support 24×7”). Well, I’m also human (as is my son), and to be told, essentially, to get lost because I didn’t sign up for more updates in time is … shall we say, “discordant”.
I find it unfortunate to pit these things against each other. And I suspect that no one told you to “get lost”. They just did not extend the “timely renewal” deal, which seems OK, no?
All the best to your son! Last year, a lone, close relative across the ocean needed emergency surgery (involving lots of titanium gear) after falling during a seizure. While my DT licence was fine, I had just become a citizen and they had collected my residence card at the ceremony. But my new passport was still in the making, effectively grounding me. I lost about 48 hours (but eventually the government offered up a mechanism to let me travel and delivered it fast, kudos!). Just arrived as the relative woke up from successful surgery.
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Moving on to something more constructive: Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that one can access the files in DTTG via the Files app. This is true, but it has enormous caveats: In my case, any file that’s not in an inbox (which, ideally, should just be the most recent new files), is replicated into typically several groups. In the Files app, the Devonthink location shows the complete group structure, but replicants don’t show up (which makes sense). So practically, you will have a very hard time finding the right folder where that replicated file happens to be living from the “file system” point of view. So I would not consider this a good approach for accessing files in DTTG when the app is not working.
I am completely supportive of DT’s licensing model, as, unlike many others, I fully acknowledge the need for the devs to make money to keep developing and to make a living. Having said that, given how important DT(TG) can become to us due to being a holder of potentially important documents, it makes sense to consider mechanisms that help people to tie them over in special situations. Since I always proactively maintain my DT licence that then includes DTTG automatically, I am not entirely familiar with the pitfalls, so correct me if I’m wrong.
- If DTTG is maintained through a DT licence on the Mac (vs iOS app store), people not familiar with the details can miss the fact that DTTG has expired, because the Mac app will still work, just not getting updates. Same is not true to DTTG. There could be a pop up panel in DT to remind of this (with the ability to click “don’t show this message again” until the next time DT expires again).
- DTTG continuing in read-only mode would obviously be the best situation. But this could lead to fewer licences sold.
- DTTG could offer a time-limited window of read-only (or full functionality), say 2 weeks, AFTER it is accessed the FIRST time after official expiry, to make it through a special situation, like the one that triggered this thread, with a clear warning pop-up that must be dismissed to access the data.
I’m sympathetic to OP’s situation here, but I do also think a bit of a reality is needed in this thread. DT gives 30 days notice to renew. Many of us have likely gone through it recently. There was a banner thing in the app we saw every time we used it, and we got an email alerting us. Yes, there are circumstances that mean sometimes a 30-day alert isn’t enough. No, that doesn’t mean DT has failed in its service to customers.
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Locking someone out of their data is never good, and is exactly why people dislike subscription services.
It’s also, in this case, extremely unexpected behavior, since that’s not how the desktop version works. And in fact DevonTech has spent a great deal of time patiently explaining that “no, our license scheme is not the same as a subscription.”
Well, if someone is locked out of their data because they forgot to renew then yes, it very much is a subscription.
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There’s two products being supported
My understanding is that Devonthink (Mac) licensing is not the same as a subscription
and we would not be locked out of our data
However, DTTG (IOS) requires a subscription if we don’t have an active Devonthink license
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Yes, that’s clearly what happened here.
My point is that having different behavior between the two platforms is confusing and user hostile.
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Regardless of what one thinks of this payment model. Special circumstances call for special solutions. It’s clear what needs to be done here. And it’s just as clear that this has to happen behind the scenes.
Every day companies help customers in special ways and keep it to themselves because they don’t want it to become the norm. I’m confident that common sense will prevail in this case as well.
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That isn’t what I was commenting on. My comment is clear (to me) that it’s addressing the sentiment that DT somehow failed in its duties by giving users 30 days notice to renew.
I wasn’t commenting on the nature of the DTTG renewal, but since you’ve responded as though I am, I will also say that DT has explained multiple times in the forum that they cannot control the update mechanics that run in the Apple Store, and that is why they instead choose to disable the app if there is no valid licence in place. They are unable to halt the development of the app at the point when the licence runs out, which is how they’re supporting the licence on Mac (and is why that is a licence not a subscription, since you aren’t losing access to anything on there - it’s also worth noting at this juncture the many conversations about licences versus subscriptions were in relation to the Mac app. The DTTG app was released later).
That they’ve provided two different methods for addressing the issue with DTTG (a separate licence renewal just for the mobile app, or coverage with the Mac licence) suggests they tried to anticipate how this might be interacted with. I imagine the alternative would’ve been the read-only model suggested here, but since there would be no sync and therefore no way to download recent files for those who don’t keep files on demand or who hadn’t run a sync before the licence expired, it would just result in a whole set of other complaints from users. Since the end result would be the same for users who don’t keep files on demand or sync regularly, I don’t really see what difference it makes (though I recognise that those who sync regularly and store all files on their local device would benefit here, as would users who only use DTTG - though I’m not sure how useful that is to the latter since they wouldn’t be able to put anything in it).
Unlike some in this forum it seems, I’m choosing to believe that the staff -who we interact regularly with in here and know are helpful and considerate of users and act on our feedback whenever possible- thought through these issues and tried to implement what they felt was the fairest solution within the boundaries imposed by the tech (i.e. the Apple Store) and their need to not make a licence completely redundant for financial reasons.
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I completely agree with this, but also wasn’t sure if my cultural preferences were showing. I wrote something in my first comment and then deleted it because it felt like my perspective might be a result of cultural values that aren’t shared across countries. Still, I feel the forum wasn’t the place to post any of this and it could’ve been resolved within a day or two with an email to DT to get back up and running.
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In the end, it’s always about doing the right thing.
Usually it’s right to stick to your principles. But principles are dumb; they never take individual circumstances into account. That’s why it’s sometimes necessary to find pragmatic solutions.
Good people know how to distinguish between the two.
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I have several applications for which payment unlocks new features that are released during the license period, while a version with an expired license is frozen at the then-current feature set.
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That is true but with the ones I have (currently only the Due app) these apps seem less complex in development than DTTG. But I am also no developer and can only comment from a simple user standpoint
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