I respectfully disagree. My objective was to set up a PKMS to be my clinical knowledge base built on information obtained from pdfs of textbooks, journal articles, websites, webinars, etc.
Obsidan out of the box does not work as well as Devonthink does, but its allure is the ability to use user contributed plug ins, especially its dataview plugin that works beautifully with the book search plugin for obtaining frontmatter for books curated within your Obsidan vault.
The highlighter plugin extracts highlights from annotated imported pdfs. The Omnisearch plugin, QuickAdd plug in, and Search on Internet plugin, all help with the organizing and storing of reading material. None of these plugins really are for notetaking, but for making Obsidian usable to do what DT does effortlessly.
But the cost of learning how to build one’s ideal Obsidian PKMS is time spent learning and fiddling with these plugins. I never approached DT as a note taking app, which is why I have been thrilled to see how well it is working as one: for me. I am able to store and curate all of my material, and only use the built in scripts to make thing work the way I could not get them to work in Obsidian.
Of course people can use both these apps - it would be foolish to think a binary approach works for everyone. I simply shared my experience because I felt so happy with how my productivity unexpectedly exploded using DT.
Please remember that sarcasm is the lowest form of humour and I encourage you to learn how to share your thoughts without coming across as condescending.
Threads like this are a little pointless since personal preference plays such a huge role in our opinions, but for what it’s worth I played with Obsidian for a few months (and bought an annual sync subscription to really commit to my test), but mostly had the same experience as OP. It’s easy to spend a lot of time tinkering with Obsidian and “optimising” it in a way that feels productive but is probably either unnecessary, or ultimately forcing Obsidian to do something it wasn’t originally designed to do.
I wasn’t looking to replace DT, I just got attracted by other folks’ experience of using both apps together. Ultimately I stopped my experiment and am migrating my Obsidian notes back into DT (actually I haven’t yet but only because I’ve been procrastinating). There were several points of friction for me (a huge one being that I want my notes next to their original texts), but I had spent a lot of time changing settings and installing plugins with Obsidian, in a way I didn’t have to do with DT.
I do very strongly feel that too much customisation/choice is a bad thing (in life generally and in apps 
). I appreciate the “railings” that are imposed on us by DT (and many other apps that are not as customisable as Obsidian), and find the cleaner “this is how this app does it” attitude conducive to work, personally.
I do also think the onboarding experience is different, mostly because of this customisation issue. With DT, there’s a manual and a couple of books, a forum, and usually one answer to the question “How do I do X?”. With Obsidian, I didn’t find the onboarding so easy: there’s a million YouTube videos, and often multiple answers to “How do I do X?”, which then drags the user into quandaries they shouldn’t have to worry about. (Honestly if you don’t know how to do X, you should just do what the app tells you to do… the problem is Obisidian often isn’t telling you, it’s presenting various plugins and you’re left to figure it out on your own without the expertise you need to make a decision… you’re a newbie after all.)
Re: cloud storage, since it’s been discussed here, I specifically chose DT because it was local app (and Obsidian!). I don’t want hundreds of my personal files in a cloud service somewhere. My work files are not so interesting, but like many DT users I also store all my life paperwork in a database. I want that to stay local.
I do also feel it’s a bit pointless paying for all this storage and processing power on our devices and then sticking everything in the cloud, but I did that for years.
Is everyone here defending his or her favorite app? Understandable but it doesn’t help anyone.
Note-taking, PKMS or anything else. The app that does everything exactly the way you want it, doesn’t exist.
If a function/feature is completely missing, there is little you can do. But for me, the more common case is another.
The function is basically there, but access is complicated. Or I have to achieve what I want in several steps. What I don’t want if it works in another app in one step.
In such cases, a good automation app for the Mac helps. I can compensate for almost everything with it.
Agree with @MsLogica and @FrankT, not to mention OP @Yazmsw was just expressing their joy and relief at finding something that works for them after what sounds like a long struggle with one particular tool that didn’t happen to meet their specific needs. It could have been any other tool or methodology.
I think we can receive others’ sharing about what tools or methodologies work or do not work for them without needing to respond in a way that suggests their sharing invalidates our own experiences.
And, of course, we can be honest about what did/does not work for us with other tools or methodologies without needing to position those tools or methodologies as flawed. Just because something doesn’t meet our needs doesn’t devalue it, for it could be of value to someone else.
PS. @Yazmsw, a bit late to the party but I totally resonate with how you feel! Not about Obsidian but rather the process of finally finding something that works! Good on ya! 
@silverhuang You’re right, of course. but @jasonekratz comment wasn’t that bad either. I would say a mixture of sarcasm and irony. 
Where I come from, freedom of speech means that I can choose how I express myself, within certain limits. But the others are also allowed to choose. No one has to do what others do, but whoever wants to restrict others also restricts himself. Serenity is a good character trait.
I agree very much.
but I also came to think these rather ‘two-sideism’-flavored threads come about by two other reasons – alongside the issue brought forward here re. the critical(!!) need of steering clear from invalidating each others experiences, needs, preferences in some kind of smurky ‘I know it all’ battles
[– which the OP here certainly didn´t engage, to be clear!]
- there simply is an ambivalency of DT being positioned – in several ways – between database, document manager, PKM, and ‘note taking environmnent of sorts’.
and I think not accepting – and reflecting – the fundamental ambivalency, and facing up to that will inadvertently create these false sideism discussions.
this whole thread is an affirmation of the ‘stereo’-view (– others might call it self-confounded, schizophrenic, or such things … –) the community takes by simultaneously declaring DT is not a note-taking environment, … while practically treating and discussing it such (– for a myriad of good & solid reasons, btw; some also stemming from DTs architecture, some – partly – its self-marketing etc.) be that as it may: certainly the forum is full of discussing DT as such a note-taking and writing environment …
// – this is basically the short recap of what I have written up here
(– and actually I think it is for a reason that there was never a substantial answer / reaction to that… ) //
- these discussions on note-taking always simultaneously discuss different scenarios, set-ups, and user-types as if they are the same, or should be, in a kind of monlithic world.
fact is, the a large chunk of the people who really want to capitalize on DTs note-taking (and other intelligent) affordances search for something that works as lo-fi notetaker (not word-processor etc.), and do so across the desktop-mobile-divide. (then, of course there are others, who embrace the friction that such a scenario brings because they are self-proclaimed tech-minimalists or -purists and expert-die-hards, differentiating themselves from 80% of the ‘normal’ user base for such apps…)
this is another ambivalency, first to be acknowledged, and basically (snd ironically) created by the otherwise superb integration of DT across desktop and mobile mode, IMO… but also one which breaks down when turning to note-taking and ‘external editors’ (– which is the standard reply / ‘solution’ by some, when some non-coding/-techie users are asking for more note-taking comfort in DT)
– this is, btw, why (a lot of) people are always bouncing between DT and … Obsidian, Bear, Craft … whatever… … a fact that actually seems at the root of this very post – comparing DT & Obsidian, with all the pre-supposed and ‘built-in’ ambivalencies of any such comparison (… obviously Obsidian is not a ‘document manager’ )
[– I also made a similar argument before, but think it was worth this kind of contextualization here…]
so, I think: better admit to the ‘native grey’ of DT – and face up to it on all sides – … instead of engaging in fruitless, all-brusing black-and-white battles… (or anything of that grade).
[– again: all this doesn´t really pertain to the thrust / intent of the OP; but it is a logic that, as I pointed out at other places, unfolds by neccessity in the ‘community’ given the basic ambivalency, and its ‘denial’ [to use a ‘big’ word, here :-D]…)
You have thought through the matter rationally very well. But the problems of the users are rather in the emotional sphere.
Someone finds an app that is almost perfect. But this “one thing” is not. So the developers should be able to change this “one thing”. But if the developers don’t want to do that, the (emotional) anger is so big that the perfect rest has no value anymore.
Although I know this, I myself become a victim of this mechanism again and again. But I try to improve myself. 
… agree…
… except w/ the ‘rather’…
again, I think, it would be good to steer away from ‘either / or’ schemas.
but you are certainly right: there are probably two types of emotional investments (like in ‘vested’) latching on, or even driving this infutile set-up:
the one you describe (– and I can happily subsume myself within that diagnostic category);
plus the complementary one, saying: ‘I can code, I know the standards, I am a tinkerer, this works for me… so, what is your problem, boy / girl?!’
…
so, with those ‘mods’, I would full-heartedly sign-up to your inclusion of the emotional / habitual substratum in a discussion often masquerading itself as ‘technical’, ‘factual’, ‘sober’ or whatever the masking…
I understand the sentiment - but perhaps the issue is not whether an app is “customized” but rather whether the customization is added by the original software author, by the user, or by a 3rd party (a plug-in).
DT3 is the most customizable app I know - its support for scripts, smart rules, smart groups, preferences, hidden preferences, custom meta-data, and multiple ways to accomplish the same thing among tags and groups makes for an incredibly customizable environment.
Scripts add to that customization - especially if the scripts are written by the user or if the user understands a 3rd party script and tweaks it for his own needs.
But the problem is that when customziation is via a 3rd party plugin such as Obsidian, often the plugins are too complex for most users to edit themselves, yet the plugins can easily break when the software is updated. So it becomes a fragile environment.
This is why I am not likely to use Obsidian. I think it’s a great idea. I also found too many idiosyncrasies.
DT is close enough to a universal solution for notes and archival that I can just use it.
I think using external editors and applications is valid. Why not?
Agreed - that’s the ultimate benefit to DT3. And you can even customize your Toolbar to make those external editors open automatically so it is 99% as good as having them native to DT3 anyway.
We have 17 users in different countries around the world syncing multiple databases over Dropbox. Some users sync 2 or 3 databases, some sync 10 or more.
Works exceptionally well.
For backup we have a single Mac which syncs all the databases, and incrementally backs up hourly via Arq Backup - simple and easy operation.
Glad to hear the setup is working well for you and your crew! 
Devonthink is peerless for all things notes & information, but I use Obsidian for projects, tasks and planning, with all project references held in DT.
I’m firmly in the camp that considers Obsidian’s third-party plugin ecosystem a feature, not a bug - I enjoy the ingenuity and functionality that plugin developers provide, and yes, I enjoy tinkering under the hood. If plugins sometimes fall out of date or otherwise fail, that’s a risk I’m prepared to take in order to enjoy the animal spirits of the Obsidian community.
On the other hand, Devonthink holds my sacred (if only to me) notes. In this environment, I prize reliability above all other considerations, with functionality close behind. DT has never broken on me in 20 years of use, and its information management capability is unmatched.
Obsidian’s plugin environment can be a helpful add-on to DT, too. I use Matter to collect my online reading, including RSS, and highlight things of interest. Obsidian’s Matter plugin gathers my Matter highlights into a well-formatted Markdown docs inside Obsidian, which then automatically appear in DT via an indexed folder.
(In an ideal world I’d just clip everything to DT, which would then parse my read-it-later articles into Matter-like content for readability, but while I wait patiently for this to happen the Obsidian-DT interface is very effective.)
Can you identify the elements of “projects, tasks and planning” that you’re using Obsidian for
I’d like to use DT for everything, but
. I export my task list to a spreadsheet for a gantt timeline view; via an Applescript
. I also use an Applescript to create a calendar entry linking to my daily journal/planner note
I won’t go into any length, because this is Devontech’s forum and Obsidian has its own lively community.
I’ll just note that I have a list of projects, each with its own doc that records contacts, meeting notes and links (including to reference docs in DT). I manage all projects via the Projects plugin’s kanban view + the Tasks plugin, + the FullCalendar plugin and the daily note. I also have a lightweight CRM using YAML frontmatter + the Dataview plugin that I draw on for project docs…
Put together, this creates a system that works better for me than any dedicated app.
I tried building an information+notes system in Obsidian, out of curiosity, but quickly abandoned it and gratefully returned to the stable maturity of Devonthink.
Devonthink is my central note-taking tool (besides document management and all these things, of course). As a note-taking program, Devonthink has become really good.
As for Obsidian, the Full Calendar plugin is interesting to link notes to calendar entries. I only use Obsidian for this, but the notes are still in Devonthink (indexed). In this way, I can take advantage of other programmes in special cases.
I do the task management (taskpaper syntax) in the terminal based on notes in Devonthink. Here I took inspiration from the Tasks plugin from Obisidian, but rebuild and realised it completely without Obsidian using the ‘na’ CLI-tools by Brett Terpstra.
Apart from that, Obsidian has a horrible Electron GUI …
No it’s a CSS trick from some of the themes. And there is no thing as standard Markdown. Nobody is dumb enough to just support the original version because it doesn’t cover enough, hence MultiMarkdown and all of the other ones.
Please remember that sarcasm is the lowest form of humour and I encourage you to learn how to share your thoughts without coming across as condescending.
That would be wonderful advice if I was being sarcastic. I was not.
That said apologies to @Yazmsw. I’m a person known for wearing his heart on his sleeve by friends and frankly Yaz your post rubbed me the wrong way. Very passionate about these applications (DT included! I’ve sung its praises and defended its honor many a time!) But it’s been a rough couple of months on my end and probably a time where I shouldn’t be replying to people in forums. That said not an excuse to take it out on you here so seriously heartfelt apologies. I’m not above admitting when I’m in error. I’m glad you’re finding a solution that works for you. I’d still say for pure notes strip Obsidian down to the bare minimum, add a good theme like Minimal (from the Obsidian CEO), and give it a shot purely for your notes and index em in DT. Might work better than you think!
There isn’t a better platform (Electron) right now for multi-platform applications. For a small team it is probably the best way to be able to support Windows/Mac/Linux. In the case of Obsidian it acts exactly the same on all platforms it runs on. That is a benefit. And if we’re being honest the default Obsidian theme looks way nicer than DEVONthink