My experience with Devonthink versus Obsidian

You have thought through the matter rationally very well. But the problems of the users are rather in the emotional sphere.

Someone finds an app that is almost perfect. But this “one thing” is not. So the developers should be able to change this “one thing”. But if the developers don’t want to do that, the (emotional) anger is so big that the perfect rest has no value anymore.

Although I know this, I myself become a victim of this mechanism again and again. But I try to improve myself. :innocent:

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… agree…
… except w/ the ‘rather’

again, I think, it would be good to steer away from ‘either / or’ schemas.

but you are certainly right: there are probably two types of emotional investments (like in ‘vested’) latching on, or even driving this infutile set-up:
the one you describe (– and I can happily subsume myself within that diagnostic category);
plus the complementary one, saying: ‘I can code, I know the standards, I am a tinkerer, this works for me… so, what is your problem, boy / girl?!’


so, with those ‘mods’, I would full-heartedly sign-up to your inclusion of the emotional / habitual substratum in a discussion often masquerading itself as ‘technical’, ‘factual’, ‘sober’ or whatever the masking…

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I understand the sentiment - but perhaps the issue is not whether an app is “customized” but rather whether the customization is added by the original software author, by the user, or by a 3rd party (a plug-in).

DT3 is the most customizable app I know - its support for scripts, smart rules, smart groups, preferences, hidden preferences, custom meta-data, and multiple ways to accomplish the same thing among tags and groups makes for an incredibly customizable environment.

Scripts add to that customization - especially if the scripts are written by the user or if the user understands a 3rd party script and tweaks it for his own needs.

But the problem is that when customziation is via a 3rd party plugin such as Obsidian, often the plugins are too complex for most users to edit themselves, yet the plugins can easily break when the software is updated. So it becomes a fragile environment.

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This is why I am not likely to use Obsidian. I think it’s a great idea. I also found too many idiosyncrasies.

DT is close enough to a universal solution for notes and archival that I can just use it.

I think using external editors and applications is valid. Why not?

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Agreed - that’s the ultimate benefit to DT3. And you can even customize your Toolbar to make those external editors open automatically so it is 99% as good as having them native to DT3 anyway.

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We have 17 users in different countries around the world syncing multiple databases over Dropbox. Some users sync 2 or 3 databases, some sync 10 or more.

Works exceptionally well.

For backup we have a single Mac which syncs all the databases, and incrementally backs up hourly via Arq Backup - simple and easy operation.

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Glad to hear the setup is working well for you and your crew! :heart: :slight_smile:

Devonthink is peerless for all things notes & information, but I use Obsidian for projects, tasks and planning, with all project references held in DT.

I’m firmly in the camp that considers Obsidian’s third-party plugin ecosystem a feature, not a bug - I enjoy the ingenuity and functionality that plugin developers provide, and yes, I enjoy tinkering under the hood. If plugins sometimes fall out of date or otherwise fail, that’s a risk I’m prepared to take in order to enjoy the animal spirits of the Obsidian community.

On the other hand, Devonthink holds my sacred (if only to me) notes. In this environment, I prize reliability above all other considerations, with functionality close behind. DT has never broken on me in 20 years of use, and its information management capability is unmatched.

Obsidian’s plugin environment can be a helpful add-on to DT, too. I use Matter to collect my online reading, including RSS, and highlight things of interest. Obsidian’s Matter plugin gathers my Matter highlights into a well-formatted Markdown docs inside Obsidian, which then automatically appear in DT via an indexed folder.

(In an ideal world I’d just clip everything to DT, which would then parse my read-it-later articles into Matter-like content for readability, but while I wait patiently for this to happen the Obsidian-DT interface is very effective.)

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Can you identify the elements of “projects, tasks and planning” that you’re using Obsidian for
I’d like to use DT for everything, but
. I export my task list to a spreadsheet for a gantt timeline view; via an Applescript
. I also use an Applescript to create a calendar entry linking to my daily journal/planner note

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I won’t go into any length, because this is Devontech’s forum and Obsidian has its own lively community.

I’ll just note that I have a list of projects, each with its own doc that records contacts, meeting notes and links (including to reference docs in DT). I manage all projects via the Projects plugin’s kanban view + the Tasks plugin, + the FullCalendar plugin and the daily note. I also have a lightweight CRM using YAML frontmatter + the Dataview plugin that I draw on for project docs…

Put together, this creates a system that works better for me than any dedicated app.

I tried building an information+notes system in Obsidian, out of curiosity, but quickly abandoned it and gratefully returned to the stable maturity of Devonthink.

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Devonthink is my central note-taking tool (besides document management and all these things, of course). As a note-taking program, Devonthink has become really good.

As for Obsidian, the Full Calendar plugin is interesting to link notes to calendar entries. I only use Obsidian for this, but the notes are still in Devonthink (indexed). In this way, I can take advantage of other programmes in special cases.

I do the task management (taskpaper syntax) in the terminal based on notes in Devonthink. Here I took inspiration from the Tasks plugin from Obisidian, but rebuild and realised it completely without Obsidian using the ‘na’ CLI-tools by Brett Terpstra.

Apart from that, Obsidian has a horrible Electron GUI …

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No it’s a CSS trick from some of the themes. And there is no thing as standard Markdown. Nobody is dumb enough to just support the original version because it doesn’t cover enough, hence MultiMarkdown and all of the other ones.

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Please remember that sarcasm is the lowest form of humour and I encourage you to learn how to share your thoughts without coming across as condescending.

That would be wonderful advice if I was being sarcastic. I was not. :joy:

That said apologies to @Yazmsw. I’m a person known for wearing his heart on his sleeve by friends and frankly Yaz your post rubbed me the wrong way. Very passionate about these applications (DT included! I’ve sung its praises and defended its honor many a time!) But it’s been a rough couple of months on my end and probably a time where I shouldn’t be replying to people in forums. That said not an excuse to take it out on you here so seriously heartfelt apologies. I’m not above admitting when I’m in error. I’m glad you’re finding a solution that works for you. I’d still say for pure notes strip Obsidian down to the bare minimum, add a good theme like Minimal (from the Obsidian CEO), and give it a shot purely for your notes and index em in DT. Might work better than you think!

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There isn’t a better platform (Electron) right now for multi-platform applications. For a small team it is probably the best way to be able to support Windows/Mac/Linux. In the case of Obsidian it acts exactly the same on all platforms it runs on. That is a benefit. And if we’re being honest the default Obsidian theme looks way nicer than DEVONthink :joy:

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I am converging on a workflow where I have notes for work in progress in Obsidian, then as they become fixed, will move them to DT. My biggest objection, which is why I may keep some things in progress (this is my default substitute for Apple Notes) in DT, is the kludgy (IMHO) way in which Obsidian handles attachmentss. I agree with @jasonekratz that the aesthetics of Obsidian, especially with some of the community themes (I am partial to the ITS Theme) are beautiful.

Beyond all arguments, maybe it is quite simple.

Younger than 40 = Obsidian is a temptation
Older than 40 = :yawning_face:

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Except I’m way past 40 :wink:

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What part of attachment handling don’t you like? Its never sat well with me either but not sure how else they could do it.

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Ah, so it’s you. The exception that proves the rule :wink:

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I don’t know the Markdown options well enough to assess, but if I want to have an attachment to a note, then later export that note (with the attachment), there doesn’t seem to be an easy path (that I have found so far)