Newbie Advice: Indexing vs Database

DEVONthink
21

I move an item to a new location (and so move it to a new location inside that Finder folder) on Mac A, does this mean that a successful sync will result with the item being similarly moved to the new Finder location on Mac B?

Not unless the parent folder was indexed. Here’s a simple example…

File 1 is present on the Desktop of Macs A and B.

  1. Folder 1 on Desktop A is indexed into DEVONthink.
  2. Mac B syncs this database and receives Folder 1 on its Desktop.
  3. On Mac A, File 1 is moved into Folder 1.
  4. DT syncs.
  5. Mac B receives File 1 inside Folder 1, unrelated to the previous File 1.
22

I think I see what you mean… But if, for a certain database, all the syncing data is restricted to a certain folder (say ~/Documents/Research), the Finder-mirroring behaviour between Macs will happen?

23

I’m unclear on your wording here, but yes indexed files in a location like you mentioned will be mirrored between machines.

24

Well, it all sounds good. In fact it sounds like a superior version of Keep It* that can use Dropbox, and with selective sync. And with multiple databases/locations (like the one in my example path). And DTPO’s editor is now in the centre (where it always belonged). Hope I can still manually evoke the Dropbox sync when I want to.

*yes I know they’re “different”

25

It’s easy enough to test. :slight_smile:

26

On testing, I’ll take at least some of my effusive remarks back.

Yes, you can add a file (or a folder of files), using the Finder, into an indexed folder and, hey presto, there it is in the right place in DT3. Huzzah, etc.

Syncing via a Dropbox sync store makes the files appear on the other machine, and syncs their changes across the machines. Huzzah. However in DTTG, although files you created in the macOS Finder show up, as you’d expect, files created in DTTG appear in DT3 but not in the Finder: they have to be moved into the Finder folder manually (“move to external folder”), which is weird.

Also, move any indexed file or folder in DT3 to the “trash” and there the correspondence between DT3 and Finder ends. The file or folder is not moved to the Finder trash (as it is in Keep It), just to the DT3 trash. But, if you empty the DT3 trash, it is put in the Finder trash. So, after you’ve “trashed” it, you could peek in the Finder folder and assume that it’s available in that location in DT3, but it isn’t.

So indexing and Finder-mirroring is still in a sort of half-and-half state - an odd business, even with the new ‘Finder-moving’ (and ‘Finder-moving across synced locations’) behaviours.

This is unnerving, especially as I notice that with the new DT3, Scrivener projects seem to sync OK between machines (via Dropbox sync store), inside an indexed database (large huzzahs). I recall I just could not get them to sync in DTPO2. (But, I’ve yet to see whether they’ll sync with an imported database…)

I used to shy away from indexing with DTPO2, simply because it was so easy to move an item and forget that you weren’t moving it in the Finder as well. Now in DT3, the correspondence to the Finder is almost there, but not in the case of deleting an item, or with files made on mobile. No idea why.

Perhaps I’ll use DT3 only for imported (non-indexed) databases, and use Keep It for data that I’d still like to have that one-to-one correspondence with the Finder (so much better visually than ferreting around with Finder windows). As time goes on I’ll see which seems to be the one I’ll use most. I’ll probably use both, even if I’d rather just use one.

I know I mention Keep It a lot, but this is because the programs are without doubt very similar. Keep It does a lot of what I want and how I want to do it, but I’d so prefer to use DT3, if it didn’t have these peculiarities with indexing, because with DT3 I can use Dropbox (with selective sync); plus, DT3 has many more other sophisticated features that Keep It sorely lacks.

27

However in DTTG, although files you created in the macOS Finder show up, as you’d expect, files created in DTTG appear in DT3 but not in the Finder: they have to be moved into the Finder folder manually (“move to external folder”), which is weird.

@cgrunenberg would have to comment on this. However, using the parlance of smart rules: this wouldn’t be an On Creation event in DT3, it’s an On Synchronization event.

Also, move any indexed file or folder in DT3 to the “trash” and there the correspondence between DT3 and Finder ends. The file or folder is not moved to the Finder trash (as it is in Keep It), just to the DT3 trash. But, if you empty the DT3 trash, it is put in the Finder trash.

This has always been the case in DEVONthink. The database’s Trash is just another location in the database. And we certainly don’t want to delete files unnecessarily. People often put things in their database’s Trash erroneously.

because with DT3 I can use Dropbox (with selective sync)

Can you clarify what you’re referring to here?

28

Re: Scrivener - adding a complex package with its own synchronisation handled by another app seems perilous. Scrivener forums are full of stories of people who have messed up their projects by trying weird sync combinations.

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29

I just mean that I can sync data with DEVONthink by way of Dropbox, which I prefer (Keep It is exclusively iCloud).

By “with selective sync” I just mean the way the sync store uses Dropbox’s ‘selective sync’ - not having to have the data show up and take space in your Finder Dropbox folder.

30

Perhaps you’re right, though so far it seems to be working. Not sure what you mean by “with its own synchronisation”.

31

By “with selective sync” I just mean the way the sync store uses Dropbox’s ‘selective sync’ - not having to have the data show up and take space in your Finder Dropbox folder.

Thanks for clarifying, as that’s indeed what we advocate - disabling Dropbox’s /Apps/DEVONthink Packet Sync in the Dropbox application’s preferences.

32

Back to the indexing topic, my usage scenario is this:

I have a rather large folder on an external drive which is not always connected.

I created a database on the internal drive and indexed that folder.

Now, I want DT3 to manage that folder as much as possible, and the tight Finder integration handles renaming and moving files in the indexed folder really well. Also, my DT3 is set to delete files in Finder when I delete them in the database.

When I am done, I run the update indexed items command, close the database and disconnect the drive.

HOWEVER, what happens when I want to do the following actions?

  1. Adding files to the indexed group from the inbox or another local database. Are they moved to the external drive and become indexed?

  2. How do I “unindex” something? Moving indexed files to another database or group apparently did not change the fact that they are indexed and stored on the external drive.

33

1. Adding files to the indexed group from the inbox or another local database. Are they moved to the external drive and become indexed?

They should be, yes.

2. How do I “unindex” something? Moving indexed files to another database or group apparently did not change the fact that they are indexed and stored on the external drive.

You can’t unindex something. You can…

  1. Delete the files in DEVONthink, empty the Trash - trashing only the references, then import the files instead.
  2. Choose Data > Move into Database to move the files from the Finder location into the database.
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34

The item created by DEVONthink To Go is actually an internal one (just like in DEVONthink 2) and therefore you still have to move this on your own.

35

I don’t understand point 1.
When I delete an indexed item in DT3 and empty the DT3 Trash, the file on the filesystem is gone (e.g. moved to the Finder Trash). And with the file gone, importing this file is not possible anymore. :-/

While playing around with DT3, I indexed some folders and now I want to remove that index from my DT3 database without deleting this folder (and its subfolders and files) on my mac.
How can this be achieved?

36

Trash the top level indexed group(s), meaning the ones not located in other indexed group(s). Then empty the trash and the alert should offer options to only remove the reference or also files and/or folders.

37

Thank you for the info.

But it seems not very intuitive and cumbersome:
Removing an indexed folder by deleting it (the complete one!) just to rely on the fact, that a certain dialog box pops up in the process of emptying the trash. How about removing a certain subfolder of an indexed form the index?

Just a side note: this whole “tighter integration with the Finder”-stuf came a little bit as a surprise for me as a long-term DT2 user. This fundamental change should be communicated (and documented) in more detail as it has a huge impact on certain workflows.

38

In that case you’ll get the standard alert and no such options as it’s not possible anymore to index some items of a folder but others not.

39

I’m not sure I see a “tight Finder integration handling renaming and moving files in the indexed folder.”

Just as with DT2, renaming an indexed file in DTP renames it in the Finder. But creating a folder by using the Group command on a group of four files in DTP, as an example, does not create the corresponding folder under Finder and does not move the files. All of this is unchanged from DT2.

40

Are you creating the new group “within” the index group? Only when a group is created in an index group would a folder be created under the index folder in Finder. DT3 has tight integration between a “index group” and the linked “folder” in MacOS , not between DT3 and MacOS finder.

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