Overwhelmed New User: Building a Scalable DEVONthink System for Writing + Archives

[BLUEFROG]

You’re welcome

[korm]

@FilePile

I’m overwhelmed with what to do with the program.

Being overwhelmed with technology is usually a clue that the mental objectives are unclear. Stop trying to boil the ocean, throw away all the questions, pick one task and focus on it.

Always a bad idea to buy software without knowing why.

[marnix]

I’ve had DEVONthink Pro for a few months. I too feel that I barely know it. But I’ve learned it enough that it’s become very useful. All the files (mostly PDFs) that I accrued over the past 20 years are now in DEVONthink. When I don’t know how to do something, I ask AI. Then I learn. Sometimes I read the messages or look at a tutorial. I think you could feed your questions into an AI machine and get some good answers back.

[MsLogica]

I’m going to give the opposite advice to others here

You’ve basically defined three databases:

1. Novel Development
2. Organising 15–20 Years of Files
3. Organising email

Email is very easy to sort so I’m going to suggest you do that next time you have an hour for procrastinating. Create your new email database, create a couple of folders for it based on your filing criteria, then drag and drop all your emails into it (this could run for ages depending on how many we’re talking about). Delete the originals after. Backup your hard-drive. Pat yourself on the back for ticking an item off your to-do list and then close the database (do you actually need to visit your archived emails right now? Probably not, but now you know they’re stored as files in your computer and can easily be searched).

Organising files is a much bigger task, and will probably take you many hours over many days, so break it up into chunks. Create a database for this, think about your filing structure, then start importing files into the right places. I say import specifically - unless you have a specific workflow reason to index instead, it doesn’t make sense to do this. Just move everything necessary into DEVONthink, make use of the powerful search functions, and live your best life Back everything up!

I have a couple of folders I keep outside DT in the Mac system. This is because they contain niche file types or are related to work in a way that means putting them in DT felt awkward. Otherwise, the rest of my files are all in DT and I do all my research and filing in there. I specifically came to DT because I needed a better filing system as I struggling to find things. DT solved this problem in a couple of weeks and became the place where I think. I never worry about where anything is because with a couple of exceptions the answer is always “in DT” and my database and file structure, along with search, means I can find anything quickly.

[SlickSlack]

I’ll suggest a quick modification to @MsLogica’s suggestion - Backup your hard drive first. Verify you have a working backup. Then create the email database and organize it.

[BLUEFROG]

@marnix

When I don’t know how to do something, I ask AI.

Ask AI in DEVONthink?

[marnix]

After I found out how to set up AI in DEVONthink, I started using AI within DEVONthink. I first used AI outside of DEVONthink to help me set it up.

[BLUEFROG]

Don’t forget the built-in Help and the AI-driven Help Assistant offers better and more well-informed information about DEVONthink. Also, so do these forums and of course, DEVONtech employees

[Ja_acov]

The DEVONtech employees are the BEST!

[FilePile]

@MsLogica

I’m going to give the opposite advice to others here

Thank you! I appreciate hearing different approaches to organization.

[FilePile]

@SlickSlack

I’ll suggest a quick modification to @MsLogica’s suggestion - Backup your hard drive first. Verify you have a working backup.

Thanks for the backup reminder!

[FilePile]

@meta

For writing and filing, I have the following databases:

Thanks for sharing what your databases look like! Very helpful

@meta

If you really want to consider a detailed system thought out in advance, you might be interested in Johnny Decimal. I don’t use it myself, but it’s an interesting idea.

I will look into it!

[FilePile]

@kewms

I’m a non-linear, chaotic pantser

Haha. I can relate

@kewms

Full disclosure: I’m also on the Scrivener support team, but I was an enthusiastic user first.

I know every system is different but, how do you use Scrivener and DT in conjunction when working on your novels?

[kewms]

DT for research, Scrivener for everything else.

I use DT primarily for non-fiction, though, which requires much more extensive research.

[FilePile]

@korm

Being overwhelmed with technology is usually a clue that the mental objectives are unclear. Stop trying to boil the ocean, throw away all the questions, pick one task and focus on it.

I agree. I probably should have waited a few more days before writing the message. All the replies have been incredibly useful. I needed that reality check to stop overthinking and focus on what I want to do.

@korm

Always a bad idea to buy software without knowing why.

True. I wasn’t completely clueless either but should have done more research. I’m moving at a very slow pace (which I’m ok with now…not during the initial post) , but I’m starting to feel more comfortable with what I want to do and how to do it, especially now that I’ve narrowed down my objectives.

Thanks!

[FilePile]

@BLUEFROG

Remember: DEVONthink isn’t a solution looking for a problem. It’s a solution to a problem (often several). Start with a specific problem and explore the options. You’re not building a house where you have to commit to if there’s a rotunda in the center of it and you hope it’s a good idea because you’ll be stuck with it. Accept it’s possible you’re not going to build your final database on the first go around. (I’m on version 5 of a support database I’ve been iterating for almost 14 years.) Create and delete databases as you need to. Keep the good ones, examine and throw out the bad ones (cherry-picking from the contents, as needed first), and try a different approach. This is how to learn how YOU use the app.

Thank you so much for all of the information, especially this part. It put things into perspective. I’m realizing that this is going to be a dynamic process of trial and error until I find the best fit for what I need and that what works better for this project might look different for other projects in the future.

I’ve also accepted the fact that I may need to consult the manual more often than I’d like. I know it exists for a reason. I’m starting to miss the days when I could just jump into a program and figure it out as I went.

[BLUEFROG]

@FilePile

I’m starting to miss the days when I could just jump into a program and figure it out as I went.

For the basics of getting information in and organized, it should be pretty intuitive, I think (though I have a bias).

[FilePile]

@BLUEFROG

For the basics of getting information in and organized, it should be pretty intuitive, I think (though I have a bias).

Oh! You are not biased. It is. I’m just talking in general (not just DT) when what I want to do gets more complex and I need to look at the manual more in depth. I used to be very techy and figure things out very fast … I’m just getting old lol

[DrJJWMac]

Start with an aim. List the objectives needed to meet this aim. Find the tool(s) to meet the objectives in the best way possible. Here is what you noted in your first posting.

• store research – the Finder is a perfect (built-in) tool for this
• organize … materials – Devonthink can organize content, but so can the Finder
• create a wiki-style knowledge base – Obsidian or a wiki-building app could do this
• manage … documents – what do you mean by “manage” (see below)
• integrate AI tools – Devonthink and Curio provide options to access AI tools
• build durable cross-links within content – Obsidian or a wiki-building app could do this

Later in your replies, you document two general parts of your workflow: creation and management. I think you have more than this: definition, research, creation, completion, publication, and management. Define what you want to create. Research the material needed to create it. Create it. Complete it. Publish it. Finally manage – organize the storage and interaction of the products arising at each stage. Taking these aims, you could find the tools below.

• define – Word or Scrivener or Curio or TextEdit or …
• research – the Web + an AI tool and Word or Scrivener or Curio or …
• create – Scrivener and Curio and …
• complete – as above + Aeon Timeline and …
• publish – == this has its own set of steps with its own specific tools ==
• manage – Finder

Note that nothing above demands that you use Devonthink. And if you do decide that you want to try Devonthink, the first place to try it is at the research step.

A few notes about some other thoughts in your post.

• For purists, an archive is a static, immutable container of unaltered, source content. Archives are built once, date and time stamped, and never altered thereafter. Ideally, content in an archive is stored in a format that easily mirrors the organization of its source and that is accessible across any system at any time because the intent is to reference them as certifiable, historical resources. Devonthink should not be used to archive without recognizing its serious restrictions with regards to these demands. You cannot open a Devonthink database on a Windows or Linux or iPadOS system. Files imported into a Devonthink database are stored in an internal organization that does not mirror the organization of the same files at the source location. Devonthink adds its own tags and meta markers to its content. Imagine someone taking a hard copy of your recent book, tearing out every page, scattering those pages in a file cabinet marked by numbers that only they understand, adding a few sticky notes to certain pages, and handing you the file cabinet as your “archive” of your book. There you have a Devonthink “archive”. Archive folders and files using the Finder command compress to create a ZIP (archive) file.
• Do not expect any one app to do everything well, if at all. Counter to this note, do not expect that you should have to open more than one app at any time to do your work well. In some cases, the urge to have every app that you open linked to every other app that you open all at the same time is a distracting, dangerous dream.

Finally, as others have said, focus your questions specifically to Devonthink and specifically to step-by-step applications of Devonthink. And do some reading here. You are not the first of many first-time users who have been overwhelmed. You are also not the first to throw out a scatter shot of questions in what appears to be a frantic or panic mode. By analogy as we read your postings, what you risk at this point is leaving an impression that, if we should try to read your future novel, we would believe that you expect us to be polite to follow your ramblings that cover everywhere, everything, all at once, only without any true focus or enjoyable actors to tie it all together well by the end.

And in all of this, before you start to play with Devonthink, create an archive copy at the Finder level of the files and folders that you plan to index or import into Devonthink. Then, go try to break things with it. Ultimately, you won’t break anything but your misunderstandings of how Devonthink works. And you can always get back to start again using the original archive.

–
JJW