# Strange issue with stubborn 'always open' group **URL:** \ **Category:** DEVONthink\ **Created:** [November 30, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104 "2021-11-30T21:07:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2

**Author:** ![mbbntu](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@mbbntu](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/mbbntu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/21 "2022-09-07T14:38:25Z")

Was this “always open” issue ever resolved? I’m still seeing the behaviour. I’m on DT 3.8.5. ---

**Author:** ![BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/user_avatar/discourse.devontechnologies.com/bluefrog/32/135_2.png) [@BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/BLUEFROG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/22 "2022-09-07T18:23:59Z")

- Is **Preferences \> General \> Interface \> Sidebar \> Automatically expand & collapse** enabled? - What view are you using, e.g., List view? ---

**Author:** ![mbbntu](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@mbbntu](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/mbbntu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 6:42pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/23 "2022-09-07T18:42:07Z")

- Automatically expand and collapse is _not_ enabled - List view is being used I have a desktop and a laptop, which are synchronised using Bonjour. Strangely, this behaviour only occurs on the laptop (from which the desktop synchronises). ---

**Author:** ![BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/user_avatar/discourse.devontechnologies.com/bluefrog/32/135_2.png) [@BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/BLUEFROG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/24 "2022-09-07T18:50:08Z")

- Are you expecting the expansion state to be synced between machines? - If so, that’s not supported at this time. ---

**Author:** ![mbbntu](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@mbbntu](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/mbbntu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/25 "2022-09-07T19:15:05Z")

No, I’m just expecting the database not to revert to expanding to the same group every time I open it, even though I’ve closed that group, or opened some other group before closing the database. I haven’t wanted to work in that particular group for some time now, but every time I open the database it is as if the database itself wants me to begin there. Which I don’t. In the end, it finally became so irritating that I’ve just split up the database into several smaller ones. I’m just hoping that I don’t get a repeat of the problem and find myself looking at the same expansion every time I open a database, and having to close it before I can get on with my work. ---

**Author:** ![jmblrg](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/user_avatar/discourse.devontechnologies.com/jmblrg/32/17704_2.png) [@jmblrg](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/jmblrg)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/26 "2023-05-10T18:37:27Z")

I came here to post this same issue. It’s driving me insane. I have a group called “Meetings” with a bunch of groups named for years (e.g. “2022”), and every time I select the Meetings group, year 2022 expands. Makes me want to delete it, because it pushes down 2023 in the list, and I have to collapse it every. single. time. But I have good news, @mbbntu. As I was typing out all the ways I tried to fix this, I realized I forgot some things and accidentally found the solution. Simply close the groups you want, and press Ctrl+S to save the view. That solved it for me. I can now save whatever view I want (which is also great!). The Ctrl+S shortcut is for Save, but it’s greyed out usually. Use the keyboard shortcut. To the DevonTHINK guys, this feature is actually kinda interesting now that I’m aware of it, but it’s so easy to accidentally press Ctrl+S while you’re _not_ editing a document that it has probably already driven some of us to murder. I hope @mbbntu isn’t in prison. 🙁 ---

**Author:** ![BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/user_avatar/discourse.devontechnologies.com/bluefrog/32/135_2.png) [@BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/BLUEFROG)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/27 "2023-05-10T19:10:58Z")

@cgrunenberg would have to comment further but that command should have no relationship to the state of windows and their elements. ---

**Author:** ![cgrunenberg](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/user_avatar/discourse.devontechnologies.com/cgrunenberg/32/7172_2.png) [@cgrunenberg](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/cgrunenberg)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 5:37am UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/28 "2023-05-11T05:37:10Z")

Actually only modified documents can be saved, the shortcut (and its menu item) don’t affect the user interface. ---

**Author:** ![jmblrg](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/user_avatar/discourse.devontechnologies.com/jmblrg/32/17704_2.png) [@jmblrg](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/jmblrg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/29 "2023-05-27T13:53:39Z")

I went back to reproduce this, and it is reproducible from one account on my computer (“A”), but not from the other account (“B”). Both are running the same installation of DTP (3.9), but have different databases open. There is something horribly inconsistent with the state persistence on the database I’m using in user account “A”. On “B”, it always remembers the last expansion state of the group, as expected. On “A”, I can’t detect a pattern. But on the other hand, if I Ctrl+S, it always remembers the expansion sate of the group. If I find time to test more, I’ll do so. If you can think of an experiment to run, let me know. 😄 ---

**Author:** ![BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/user_avatar/discourse.devontechnologies.com/bluefrog/32/135_2.png) [@BLUEFROG](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/u/BLUEFROG)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104/30 "2023-05-27T14:02:43Z")

> [@jmblrg](#): > > But on the other hand, if I Ctrl+S, it always remembers the expansion sate of the group. If we can reproduce this, we will. [Previous page](https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/strange-issue-with-stubborn-always-open-group/68104.md?page=1)