Syncing folders between DT-Databases? (this should be easy... I guess...)

I understand John.
I am studying ‘why’s’ (and their nature) all the time.

but I also try to understand a partner in dialogue. the prerequisite is listening to him / her in good faith and with some attention.

I gave the reasoning for the set-up of my scenario above. it might not be sufficient.
but you not even referring to it or acknowledging to all this, makes this ‘why’ a little generic.
maybe you read my motivation. then (to me) it’s not really helpful communicative style to re-pose such a question w/o any reference.
it’s also not helpful bec I don’t know what your ‘why’ actually means, what aspect to elaborate on etc. it also says ‘whatever you said before, ‘why?’…’

sumup: I am all for ‘whys’, logically, communicatively.
but they must make sense, and be in respect of a given trajectory of a communication.
in my view.

this issue of respectful communication is what the art of moderation is for. also stepping in, when third parties transgress.
why? because there is a forum’s culture to keep. and this culture is about tonality and communicative style as much as about ‘why’s’. again, in my view / understanding.

As I mentioned, I can’t think of a scenario where this is seemingly useful, I.e., you mention a process but declared no concrete use case.
And perhaps with a concrete use case, it may prove to be a useful method for others to use.

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I can quote myself, and you can tell me on which part I should elaborate:


“my workflow / architecture makes this neccessary. I am working with a particular and rather modular scheme of databases, some ‘global’ some ‘specific’. and my whole scenario (plus the way I use the immensely powerful search and AI in DT) relies on some folders being present in the global and some specific databases.
maybe to give a shorthand for the rationale forcing my hand: I deal with a lot of very different contexts. but in my collection process I want to deal with only one ‘global’ ‘inbox’ – because everything else would drive me nuts… :-). so I need a way for automated transmission of the sorting within my global DB into my multiple sub-DBs (which I only open / use according to work context)”


besides my personal scenario: I also think keeping two groups ‘in sync’ across two databases is per se a legitimate question; and 90% of requests in this forum are (technically) more exotic than this, imo.

on the second dimension of this (which you are not reacting to)
… still, I also think, moderation should also be concerned w/ keeping a healthy and respectful tonality in forums. and respectful, attentive, supportive communications. as this is not just digital or conceptual mechanics…
… but certainly I’d be interested in DevonTechs take on this aspect… at least for me (I can’t speak for others), it’s not the first time I hear guys commenting over my head with smileys, not reading what I write to then make sarcastic comments – and people bluntly rejecting my motivation because it’s not ‘their ways’ of doing / thinking. I am saying this respectfully, because I think there is so much good in the forums here, that I do not understand this kind of tone-setting is just accepted…

besides my personal scenario: I also think keeping two groups ‘in sync’ across two databases is per se a legitimate question; and 90% of requests in this forum are (technically) more exotic than this, imo.

But again, what’s the use case or context where this is desirable?

Such duplication across databases leads to redundant search and AI hits, in my experience. (And yes, I have this exact scenario as I transition to a new database with the old version still open.)

Please provide a concrete example like ”Imagine you have a database about kayaks. You also have a database about sports…” or whatever. Something that clarifies a real-world example. Again, perhaps you are just doing something unusual or perhaps you have a method that would be useful to others as well.

the use case is where one researches a broad stream of information, and wants that - after sorting w/ help of DT-fab AI - to be (also) available in very different local / specific contexts (databases) w/o the noise a global / huge database naturally brings (as good as DT-AI) is. meaning: I can close the global db (or disregard it in search - e.g. via ‘search in this db only’), and still have available the records which I collected and pre-sorted in there (global db, ‘inbox’… however you want to call it).
– but I think I kind of said that already above.
otherwise, please elaborate what kind of ‘use case’ description is in your mind…

[addition]
when I revisited the comment anew, I saw the added (‘Kayak-framing’) request from @Bluefrog; i.e. request to spell out my ‘use-case’ even further,
… so, here is that scenario as well, though I honestly do not think this kind of background is either standard here, or is really (read: should be) needed to accept the legitimacy / relevancy of a request for help w/ a particular ‘technical’ set-up, otherwise missing in DT.
– but hopefully it at least serves some to get further ideas (as also stated by @bluefrog)

use case scenario (simplified from my actual use)

• you read and collect many multi-topical blogs because you have many interests. these interests additionally subdivide into domains (personal, professional, special interest topics etc). – so what you read could come from Thoughts&Co, Curio, Aeon, or ‘The Long Now’, National Geographic, or Physics.org… any mixed topic source like that
• these provide interesting content that could fall into any of your interest categories (vulcanos, oceans, climate crisis, aesthetics, kayaks, parallels of water-borne and air-borne ships, traditional cultures, extinction - depletion - loss, crisis of modernity, … even: interesting topical places to visit, or: strange sports, as quirky hobby :wink: )
• for the rather numerous substopics you prefer likewise numerous special DBs – because: you prefer to have clean search / related contents / concordance / tag-sets … and all that, once you really jump into those special topics (= spotlight-set-up of the DB in question)
• given your daily / weekly scan (= ingest / reading) of general text & info-sources you know there will be some articles that will belong into any of those or into several of those categories. at the same time there are some articles, or books/events you want to register you deem interesting, but they do not yet fall into any of your predefined topics. they might border on some of the topics, but are not strictly relevant when it comes down to it, in terms of spotlight mode (e.g. history of boating, island cultures, sports events etc.). the general DB thus is a kind of straylight DB.
• still it has some defined function: while collecting content from sources like those mentioned, you are reading / highlighting the important parts in this DB – as you want to have them marked up in a single go, even if the end up in different databases later. And as you a) either don’t want to deal with really sorting stuff right away into one of the many subtopics (databases); or b) are unsure they even really belong in any of those (yet); or c) as know they belong into many at once… you prefer keeping the first working phase (ingest / read / pre-sort) in this general DB. this way you can also benefit from the fact that the internal DT AI and the tag-autocomplete is your friend – and helps you to immediately and painlessly pre-sort the articles into different folders, w/o the work and friction of opening extra DBs now (and the work of having to remember which ones are around, re-conentrating all the time). also you value that some groups that do not yet fall into any subtopic (= do not go into a special DB for now) can grow here, regardless. and once a new category really ‘takes off’ (= the group grows; catches your special interest) you might get the idea, ‘ok, this maybe should become an extra topic… and get an extra DB eventually’.
• the way you wanna take care of that is that once you open your special topic / focus DBs you just go back to your general DB and decide which folders should from now on be ‘forwarded’ to that (it might be one of the sorting folders, or a curated set of those). and you feel relieved you can feed that DB later just by sorting into the right folder in the general DB, i.e. w/o opening and closing (and searching) specialized DBs all the time. (because there is automatic ‘mirroring’ of the selected folders from general DB into the specialized ones)
• also, in this scenario there are still these times you want to go into your special DBs (let’s say Kayak), but you want your search and autosuggest, concordance and all that to be clean… (see above)
• then, in this scenario, there are times where you want to / need to go back to the general DB for other reasons; like: you want to check whether new folders not yet acknowledged should be added to one special DB; you want to relate back your topical research to a broader horizon of discourse and information (to get new ideas; to question your assumptions, categorizations, reframe your context space etc.). thus, it is of additional vualue (besides the practical workflow) to know your special sorting groups are still to be found in that larger context

… is this what you had in mind with your request, @BLUEFROG?
Anyways, hope it helps people, possibly get new ideas, or contrast theirs.

But why would you keep the items in the Global Inbox as well as other databases?

… because
a) I also want to find / contextualize them in broader contexts
b) I want a go-to db with all the information, w/o need to open-up / remember / etc the ‘local’ / ‘specific ones’ each time (I have some)

Whilst it was not, and is not my intention to band up on you, what I was saying with my comment is that in my opinion you have used a very large number of words to describe very little of what you are doing. I apologise for not having said so directly to you; it is not for you to know that I enjoy a bit of friendly banter with Jim now and then, and I accept that you may feel it suggests I am not taking you seriously.

Whilst I accept your views - and will consider them in the future - I see an advantage in the rather open style of the forum here; it makes it easier to see how others have understood or misunderstood what I have written. Thank you for your open feedback in return.

I have read the whole thread a number of times, and would be completely at a loss to describe what it is you are actually doing with DEVONthink. Like Jim, I feel it is easier to support if I have some concept of what it is that is happening in my head. That, obviously, is my failing rather than yours - but one which you almost have to live with (I’m not sure I will achieve conceptual independence within my lifetime).

A simple smart rule to achieve a one-way sync (a contradiction in terms…) could look like this:

(where test is the originating database and testenc is the receiving database). The script behind the rule is

property theDb : "testenc" -- use the name of the receiving database
property theGr : "/Group_A" -- use the path to the receiving group

on performSmartRule(theRecords)
	tell application id "DNtp"
		try
			set theDest to get record at theGr in database theDb
			move record theDest to trash group in database theDb
		end try
	end tell
end performSmartRule

This setup requires one rule per group, and the script needs to reflect the name of the receiving database and the path to the receiving folder (to be set up in the two property lines).

Obviously this is just a little setup; it would be easy to expand the script to include the duplication routine, and to act on a number of groups. The rule could be triggered at fixed intervals. From the names of my databases you will see that whilst I have tested the rule, I have done so on non-production data. I strongly recommend you use test data and test databases to set things up to your satisfaction, and make appropriate backups before then using the rule on production data.

Edit: re-reading my post, I feel it may be helpful to explain: the rule deletes the receiving group from the receiving database before then duplicating the source group to the receiving database. Any changes made in the receiving group in the receiving database before the rule is run will be lost; any changes made in the source group will be reflected. This is a purely one-way routine.

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@blanc:

• Thanks for the apologies on indirectness.
I think it would stand out better, if wouldn’t put so many brackets and qualifications around it. but here we are.

… I think this is an example of the non-neccessary / unhelpful sideswipes (- as there was a whole history of discussion here. and lacking adequate terminology - as DT and you also treate ‘syncs’ foremostly in the DT-internal logic of cross-device – I resorted to ‘mirrroring’. and I also said as reaction to a qualified comment 'one-way ‘syncs’ [parantheses!] would also help, if there is no other option. [ there are ‘one-way syncs’ in many special applications btw].

the rest is about language and expression:
it might be that it was complicated.
but I think to some extent, and seeing I definitely and obviously tried hard, this has to be acknowledged and accepted, especially in an ‘open forum culture’ (there are different ways of interpreting ‘open’ – just as with sync)

in my view part if that openess is accepting:
• english is not a universal language
• programming/scripting conceptualization (and it’s ‘way of thinking’) is not a global given either
• there are many complicating factors in case of DT (exclusive ideas about ‘sync’, ‘indexed folders’ that turn into groups, myriad of user conceptualizations that cross into this)

I can say I tried hard to describe it.
and I am still astonished a simple ‘how can I sync group B in DB 1 with group C in DB 2?’ causes so much trouble in dealing for such an otherwise advanced software / forum. and surely some things could maybe have been described better. (so what?)

I also think the role of interested and helpful questioning is as crucial as the responsibility of trying to clearly articulate oneself (even if in multiple ‘foreign’ languages).

lastly, thanks for that solution proposal. I will look into it once I have breath.
it also tells me my issue was actually and indeed understandable. in principle.
but thanks for taking the (extra) effort!

I wish the forums an enduring ‘openess’, one not only sanctioning free-wheeling stirring regardless of circumstances and what is expressed / written / tried to be expressed…

and I can only encourage you to be direct to people, at least those you are not naturally bantering with… (which of course is your bussiness; though in Jim’s case it shouldn’t compromise the parallel role as moderator, imo)

so, thanks in some ways.
there is some rest to digest.

It is actually an example of me expressing my inability to find the correct term to describe what it is that I am offering. There is no malicious component to it.

I will be leaving this thread at this point - not because I don’t want to help you, but because I feel that my input is likely to continue irking you, despite that not being my intention; it won’t be helpful for each of us tho have to explain their intentions every further step of the way. I’m honestly sorry we haven’t hit off - people don’t always. I value your feedback.

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thanks again @Blanc!

likewise I value the best of your intentions and the helpful comments.
and there were indeed helpful ones. thanks for those!

[post-edit:] I do now understand / accept the particular remark from @Blanc was not meant as such a ‘sideswipe’ in this case. – I do still hold misunderstandings as this arise in particular in threads / circumstances in which a) such sideswipes precede the discussion and are not ‘moderated’ (in some way) and seemingly tolerated by the forum public; and b) the general impression is cultivated / tolerated (even if only by some; – but again unmoderated / generally accepted / tolerated) that it is only the inquirer (the one looking for help) who bears responsibility for understanding / precision / terminology, and that he/she even bears extra burden to legitimize a request / issue, or needs to stay in line in terms of (perceived and ‘canonized’) ‘best-practices’]
[// end post-edit:]

sorry otherwise for induced stress. obviously not intended :slight_smile:

personally I do think there is one thing underestimated here (and in these forums; and in some communication cultures): once you start w/ ‘grey commenting’ (made-up term), there is oil in the water. and it’s not easy – for neither side –
to clear up things again.

I do understand there are a lot of techie people (I believe it’s mostly guys; but I might be wrong here) that have their own lingo and stlye. plus a LOT of technical knowledge and understanding. but sometimes the brawling gets in the way once it’s not the pub. and the circle opens up (– or should)

… all these experiences over the years actually make me wonder about the particular demographics and (im-)balances of the DT-forum…
… and again, I would be interested to know DTs take on this…

then, finally I am grateful these forums exist. and (more often than not; and as long as one doesn’t leave the premises too far) they are very helpful, and often kind.

looking at your final proposal I think this could be it.
so a particular thank you for that!

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That is my take-home message from our interaction.

You’re welcome.

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as a relatively recent devon think user I’ve learned that “uninteresting” questions, questions that may have been asked before, questions with partial or full answers in the several manuals, and questions that reflect a poor understannd of devonthink “best practices” are not well received. The forum is the last place I look for answers. I don’t really like being judged.

:pensive:

That is dispiriting feedback indeed. I need to spend a little time thinking about it and then I’d like to contact you directly if I may.

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Sorry, but I could not let your comment pass without a response. I’m really sorry that’s your experience of the forum: it must be very frustrating and I genuinely sympathise if that’s so. However, I do wish to record that my own experience has been the complete opposite.

Ever since my first days here, some years ago, as a blundering newbie, I have been guided by others on the forum with patience, good humour and understanding. Of course, there are those here who will not spoon-feed (thank you, @BLUEFROG!) but, instead, provoke you a little to stretch your abilities by providing part of an answer to a problem. But I’ve found there is always halp here, whetever the problem and however simple the solution. Further, I have learned a huge amount by reading all forum posts—which I still do daily.

I don’t wish to detract from your own experience but merely to offer one that does not accord with it.

Stephen

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It’s been interesting to see other use cases, and I have learned a lot from the conversation so far, so I appreciate everyone taking the time to share their thoughts with everyone on the forum. I think the forum ought to be the first stop for topics like this one because we all benefit from discussions, but if anyone feels uncomfortable with the tone or content, I strongly recommend contacting the support staff or other users directly. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I have found my interactions with staff and users to have been overwhelmingly positive.

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