Video + timeline related information – in DT, the wider file ecosystem & in knowledge work in general

hey Bluefrog,

thanks. This kind of summing-up and reacting reflection is appreciated.

I see that as one of the core take-aways. And it is a reasonable 'meta-'argument. I think indeed every app has it´s character (and characters :slight_smile: ) – and that is ultimately a good thing. And simply something one better takes into account and acknowledges when dealing with complex apps. (And certainly DT has a lot of cores and strengths… :slight_smile: )

This goes to the core of the argument (‘architectural’ logic). And this is what I would indeed debate and contest to some extent.
First of all there is metadata in non-textual documents. And surely ‘metadata’ is not an aspect alien to the DT-horizon and architecture. – Consider the way DT itself acknowledges this in principle; e.g. importing / indexing of existing documents; importing some of the IPTC (text-)metadata from images(!); but also DTs many affordances to input, manipulate and work with metadata alongside ‘body-text’).

One thing I think safe to say is that this ‘mode of textual hybridity’ (– text in the human-readable body of documents; other textual metadata, human readable, interactionable or not…) is a base-feature/-reality of current day (digital) documents. With that in sight and contrasting of text vs. video (image / audio) gets … complex. Especially if one considers DT on it´s own terms (document handling vs. simple ‘note taking’ etc.)

– In my view out of the multiple functional universes that DT serves (and it is a master at that), you are restricting discussion with this particular framing of your example to the mental space / scenario of notetaking (or something in that realm…).


Then there were in the course of the relevant threads here 'like three’ – by-and-large unadressed – arguments – also challenging this equation on different bases:

  1. there are more and more ways to input text alongside timebased media (see YT- and podcast chapters; see subtitles and closed captions; see ‘special’ (research) software like Kyno, or even FinalCut and metadata / keywords / markers etc.). Also there is growing, more specialized base for this in more specific research-centric domains (… up to attorneys, and script writers). It is rather a question of how to evaluate this trend.
    – Again, as to the somewhat ecclectic way DT-as-is already acknowledges this: YT chapters are recognized and imported! (– even though I still do not understand on what technical protocoll :-}). Also take PDFs: PDFs were (and to some extent still are) image / design based to a large degree. What is DT response in that particular case? It implements OCR!! – So this definitely – to me – is a rather pro-active channeling into the direction of ‘text-culture’. (Which, functionally, I like btw. I am not against ‘text’ :smiley: )

  2. … brings to the second point that was raised in this (or the ‘sibling-thread’): it is possible by now to do automated transcription. and actually we see that all over the internet by now, certainly in more professional / enterpreneurial realms. As to that there was @AW2307 point that autotranscription really is something (like OCR) that could be considered (at least conceptually) – see [here]. (Interested in your scenarios / experiences around timeline related documents / knowledge (audio / video) - #2 by AW2307)

  3. related to the third point raised… as, lastly, there is certainly the trend of bringing text as automatic / ‘natural’ augment to video (and audio) ‘consumer’ platforms. again, see YT-example, vimeo following, chapter and note culture in audio platforms and apps (like soundcloud, or in the better podcast apps).


So, I really do appreciate you getting to the conceptional core of it, and follow through. But I think your reaction also shows the (unacknowledged) ambivalencies as they exist, even within DT: your example excludes images totally, which are put into DT regularly I suppose (and are also regularly discussed here). It omits some of DT reals ‘core strengths’ and programmatics (like OCR; IPTC support, native time based references etc.).

I surely don´t think it´s an active form of 'not wanting to ”keep up with the times”’ :-). I am also acknowledging this is all strategic decision stuff. but I think to ”keep up with the times”’ one has to have open ears, and eyes, and a culture of attentive discussion in relation to tectonic shift and evolutions. (DT itself is a child of the transition from print to digital text, I guess). I think things like OCR for PDF while not adressing auto-transcription even conceptually is a sign of some bias. (That is not to beat this over anyones head, of course…)

In that spirit I thank you for your response here. As you see, in the end I ‘personally’ think a reductionist narrative of text-files vs other media-files doesn´t hold very long if going into the matter (and into DT itself), neither conceptually, nor in terms of document culture development, nor review of DT-genealogy itself…

But I would never argue with decisions made by others about what ‘core strengths’, ‘profiles’ etc. they want to give their app (project). For sure. :slight_smile:
So, in some way as you might see, what I am calling for is some more serious and open ‘accounting’ and systematic reflection – while not leaving DT´s grounds, aspirations, or premises

So, thanks for getting to it…!

2 Likes