What's your most commonly used writing format?

Hi. I write most things in plain text. Sometimes, I use markdown, but only when there is a compelling need. On a daily basis, I have to write in Office products (Word, Excel, and PowerPoint), but do my best to avoid them. Excel is a particular irritation, because it seems to be favored for the sometimes lengthy “forms” I have to submit (various institutions in Japan rely on them).

I don’t enjoy writing in any of the Office products (the software is fine, but simply a poor fit for what I want to get out of writing), but I am undoubtedly more efficient / productive with them (closer to the final product) , so if efficiency / productivity was my goal, the order of priority would be flipped.

In terms of DEVONthink, I am more or less pleased with the text support (I’d like to be able to see invisibles), and the markdown support (added and improved over the last few years) has been quite impressive.

One of the nice things about plain text (for me) is that it is lightweight, quick to search, and exceedingly portable. One irritation I have in DT is that CJK searches remain unreliable (a point I have raised a few times over the years). I think it is a low priority for the team, but if you ever find yourself with some free time, at least bringing it up to the level of “Find Any File” would be a huge help. Specifically, text strings in blocks of text, especially near punctuation, seem to be a challenge for DT (no spaces in CJK). Obviously, having everything in plain text (ideal for searching) and not being able to find things kind of defeats the point of using this format in DT.

(I’d like to be able to see invisibles)

Format > Show/Hide Invisibles. Actually been there a very long time. I actually use it fairly often.

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@chrillek: A lot of technical arguments that I understand and don’t necessarily disagree with. Maybe my mistake was to describe more what does not work for me instead of what does. But I tried to make clear that I am talking about my use case, and defined what that largely is. In the end, I use all the formats in the poll, and many more; whatever it takes to get a specific job done. I thought that the poll was more about “daily driver” use. The format(s) we use when we have the freedom to choose and want to maximize our personal productivity with the software getting out of our way as much as possible (if I submit a paper to Physical Review Letters, it’s going to be in LaTeX because that’s what it is, but that’s not interesting to the readership here). Using the formats that feel natural to us for our internal use.

For my category of larger, structured, (image/plot) rich, documents, in my personal experience with my kind of documents, Markdown with its extensions, does not work. The ability of inserting html does not change that for me (and I have tinkered a lot with that, but the moment you start using that mechanism, the whole source readability argument for md goes down the drain). For the writing that I do largely for myself, I found Pages and Keynote to be a decent compromise between rich features that can be intuitively harnessed quickly and WYSIWYG, and the ability to search and display these docs in DT and DTTG. Also, they are single file instances, which is essential in the DB environment, where asset management is non-trivial. Having said that, I’m increasingly moving to “computational essay” notebooks in Mathematica (also single file, but unfortunately the QuickLook plugin seems not that good so preview in DT is meagre).

On to my simple notes: Plain text could go a long way. Yet, during my live note taking (either in meetings, or when I brainstorm for myself), I heavily rely on my content (mostly simple headings, nested lists, links - external, not to other notes) looking tidy in real-time (that’s how my brain operates). I can’t be distracted by a edit/preview dichotomy. One example are notes that I take during group meetings, where time is of the essence. Purely empirically, I found after initial skepticism (why do we need another, proprietary, simplistic, note app?) that Apple Notes really works for me, with speed and simplicity, tidy look, excellent sync to iOS, and sharing with family on iCloud. The downsides of Apple Notes are undisputed: A proprietary format, does not allow any integration with DT etc. I would never consider it an archival format. Most of my notes are fleeting, and eventually get archived in DT using the Exporter app (using the md format :-). I figure that a true WYSIWYG md environment (Obsidian?) would replace Apple Notes, but then I don’t want to set up yet another encapsulated note taking universe. Apple Notes is “just there”.

None of that has anything to do with what Markdown was originally aimed at, or whether “options” are a misnomer for “tags” or not.

Addendum: I’ve used Typora in the past as a WYSIWYG md tool. One can operate straight out of DT using that. At the time, I was still hoping to be able to use some imagery in such documents, and there was no good way of accommodating that between DT and Typora. That reinforced my “in DT, one entity of work must be one file” philosophy. It also just displays html additions as source, completely destroying the appearance of the document. So I gave up.

To be fair, I am now using Apple Notes also essentially without embedding images, and use markup that is within the usual offerings of Markdown. Within those bounds, Typora would indeed fulfill my needs for “quick notes” very well, with the advantage of the files being directly in DT and being open-format. Unfortunately, I’m not sure what tool I would use on the iOS side to do similar WYSIWYG. As of now, I believe fast, simple, Mac-iOS interoperability is clinching it for me.

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Markdown is plain text at its core, so I’m treating the Markdown option in the poll as plain text too.

Yes, I never got used to Numbers and I use Libre Office for Calc.

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Daring Fireball: Jason Snell on iOS Markdown Editors
… I have no idea why there are now apps that use Markdown as their back end storage format but only show styled text without the Markdown source code visible. Hey World, for example, gets this right: they just do simple WYSIWYG editing where bold is bold, italic is italic, and links look like links and the linked URL is edited in a popup. If you want WYSIWYG, do WYSIWYG. If you want Markdown, show the Markdown. Trust me, it’s meant to be shown.

By the way, this is what no other than John Gruber himself thinks about WYSIWYG related to Markdown. Funny, the bold and italic are the things I need least (sorry, **least** ) rendered, it’s the rendered structure that I want to see. I just can’t stand indented lists that go beyond a line break and don’t keep indenting, neither do asciiish tables work for me. So following his advice — and who am I to doubt Mr. Markdown — I am condemned to use Apple Notes, rtf, and their ilk forever if I want instant, single window, rendering gratification.

And I think @chrillek is correct: These issues arise because Markdown has found new applications, in particular note taking, which I thought we are mostly discussing here (but now I’m no longer sure). Web authoring is different. You fiddle with the source, you check how it looks and when you like it, you release it (same with a LaTeX manuscript). Note taking is different, it’s in the now. For that purpose a WYSIWYG frontend looks entirely reasonable to me, and if the backend is a human-readable open format, that’s even better.

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I personally hate the hybrid WYSIWYG view some apps offer. I like the code or the render, not a mix of the two. And that is also my opinion. :slight_smile:

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2 posts were split to a new topic: Content Navigation in DEVONthink

I have chosen DOCX because that is what is most commonly used in the law firm environment. But many of my first efforts start off in TXT format (not offered as a choice, interestingly enough) before they are pasted to a DOCX document.

Before I gravitated to Mac, my preferred environment was a now-defunct Windows program called Ecco Pro. There is a remarkable benefit to writing, thinking, and working in an outline format. I read NickLowe’s comment with interest. There really are no Mac-based outliners which come close to what Ecco Pro was able to offer.

My aversion to RTF comes from Apple’s weak implementation of styles. If I’m going to write an RTF document I’ll generally write it in Nisus, which Devonthink graciously protects from harm.

I’m writing in org-mode (Emacs). Would be nice if DevonThink did support that format too.

Ulysses

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The answer is - it depends.

I use markdown, Pages and Affinity Publisher depending on the job.
I tend to add to the web as pdf or md to html

Best not to get boxed into one format… keep it as near as plain vanilla text as possible…

Who here still uses:

Wordstar
WordPerfect
Acorn computers : View or Wordwise (and that assumes that you have a 5” floppy disc drive)

I suspect that this list is endless (or nearly) and I am not including defunct versions of MS Word or Mac programs

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Scrivener–with LOTS of links back to docs saved in project-specific Devonthink databases. And some handwritten notes in Notability indexed to DT3. Devonthink has made ghostwriting much easier.

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I voted Word because if I’m doing anything professionally to share I would put it in a word document, or if I want something nicely formatted. That said I use both Obsidian for certain types of information - and previously used nvalt for those. So if I make a note in Obsidian I am technically creating a markdown document but I don’t actually know markdown so to me that sort of doesn’t count. I think I know a handful of formatting commands and not sure these are the same as regular markdown or not. Back in the day when I actually did some website stuff (hobby and for a nonprofit) I wrote directly in html, but have not done any of that in recent years. If I’m not using Word I really prefer plain text files which was not an option above. (although md is really plain text.) I would be curious to know how many of the markdown responders actually use a lot of markdown features and how many are really doing plain text in a .md file due to the software they use without adding markdown notation.

I primarily work in Scrivener.

Research goes into DT in form of .rtfd or .pdf. If I import a .docx or .html, I usually convert it to a .pdf. (Downloaded articles get saved directly to DT as a .pdf when possible).

If I need to, I’ll use Pages. Dislike Word; don’t have it in my computer, but sometimes have to export to that format for someone else. I do have InDesign for layout but haven’t used it much lately.

Don’t have any reason to use .md as I’m not publishing anything on line. Giving away my age here: It reminds me of writing my first book on our IBM-PC in the early 80s, and I had to use the equivalent of markup language to format text. I was so glad to retire my IBM Selectric typewriter that I didn’t mind, but I was also very glad when I didn’t have to do that anymore! Give me WYSIWYG anytime.

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I wish LaTeX would be the preferred encoding for all tools :slight_smile:

I tried Markdown in two projects, collecting content for years, to then turn this into a grant proposal and a book. I pushed it as far as I can with Markdown, MathJax and css styling and wish one could go all the way. The conversion from Mardown to LaTeX was a painful experience.

The layouting, styling, referencing, indexing, TikZ, etc in LaTeX are of course unmatched but I wish I could still have all material managed and searchable in DT.

There are small things that spoil the experience, or make it great. For example, that I can show/order groups in DT not by date etc but manually in the order I intend for the long texts (books, proposals) is just great and searching across the many pieces and groups is something from DT that I miss writing in LaTeX.

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That’s an academic talking :wink:

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LaTeX through Overleaf!