Why Tax ?

So Devon Technologies is based in the US - so why add tax onto all the sales carts when in the final act of paying. No other US based shareware company does this to my knowledge. Only a very few European companies do and it bites… really bites that you as a company don’t swallow within your arbitrary price, the tax, - like everybody else out there selling shareware.
Devon Technologies is only one of a few companies that don’t do this. It feels wrong to write a price, advertise that price and then add tax on top at the last stage of the process. Please be upfront about the exact change or boldly confirm in the adverting that tax will be paid on top.

Only two things are certain in life…

Taxes, death and trou-ble - makes three… but that’s just Gaye.

Shareware developers don’t pass on tax to their users - ( after the completely arbitrary price has been set ) It’s a shi**y thing to do - and shows contempt for their user base.
Small software companies are not supposed to act like suits. We kind of pride ourselves on being a little different than pure corporate slaves. On being just a bunch of monkeys.
Unfortunately for us, someone who makes fiscal decisions at Devon-technologies wants that whole banana and everything that’s going as well.

They have to charge VAT, TVA, etc. in the EU because that’s the way the EU rules are written.

In my experience many, but not all, software suppliers based in the US have signed up to the scheme. If they don’t chances are the EU authorities won’t help them should there be an infringement of the intellectual property rights.

Almost all shareware companies add tax to the price unless they run their own payment system. The reason is pretty simple, any company that have “substantial sales” to the EU are required to add VAT/tax and pay that to the authorities in the corresponding country. This mean that if the sales are handled through eSellerate, and most other payment companies you will pay tax … at least if you’re located in the EU.

I don’t know how it works in other regions of the world.

Yes, that’s great, but devon-technologies is now based in the US.

I just feel that the price they advertise should include the tax. Not advertise a price and then make customers feel tricked into paying more… sometimes much more.

I just got an email saying my upgrade payment had been denied - seems someone here didn’t like my questioning how to squeeze extra cash out of users…

I must say I am dumbfounded by some of the comments in several different threads on this forum lately. Generalizations and rants that are just plain inappropriate and do not reflect the reality (and facts) regarding the DEVONtechnologies team.

As a longtime customer of DEVONtechnologies, I find it sad these particular developers are subjected to such a denunciation and condemnation as in, for example, benignstar’s posts regarding “Why Tax?” (sorry but your comments are way over the top and off the mark).

If one has an issue with the process of a tax being applied (when/how), that is a legitimate area of discussion as some have engaged in. To personally attack the developers, and make assumptions about their intentions, even implying dishonestly and conniving, is unreasonable and unfounded.

The DEVONtechnolgies team has repeatedly demonstrated their consideration and respect for their customers. They have been a stellar developer. Here are a few reminders:

  1. Have provided numerous updates to their applications with no upgrade/update charges (e.g. DTP to 1.0 to 1.5 with many additional features).

  2. When adding new features, could have just said this is an upgrade and charged accordingly. Instead they did not charge for many of these new features. At times they expanded their product offerings differentiated by features. Keeping tiered options available and supporting each, from DN, DT Personal, DT Pro to DT Pro Office, has made it possible for many to continue to use the program they have rather than being forced to buy an upgrade for features they don’t need.

  3. Provide great freeware tools (that are frequently updated) such as WordService, CalcService, Easyfind, ThumbsUp, PhotoStickies, and the list goes on. Some of these are used across all OS X applications via Services.

  4. Have provided and participated in a rich user forum, with extensive ongoing/daily involvement. Hung in there and continued in the dialog through much, often severe, criticism regarding anticipated 2.0 release.

  5. Offer significant bundle, educational and other discounts. The upgrade prices are kept exceptionally low (Price points of their products are in my opinion, the most accessible of any major developer. They make it possible for the general consumer to afford the applications. Many applications by other developers are priced out of the market for most, unless it is for direct business purchase and use).

Just this week many people seemed to believe the 2.0 beta would not be released until Dec 23, 24, or 25th if it were released at all. The developers surprised us with the beta on the 18th. Except for a few procedural issues between 1.5 and 2.0 regarding file names when converting an old database, the almost unanimous consensus is that 2.0 is stable, robust, and a truly excellent upgrade.

At anytime, but particularly during this holiday season, if not appreciation for their efforts (which I am greatly thankful for), any discussion should be civil with a modicum of respect. The developers have obviously worked very hard. While much of the user-base has hung in there waiting for 2.0, the develop team have hung in there also, keeping their noses to the grindstone.

There will always be some issues, problems, disagreements and frustrations. People will engage in constructive dialog and at times just vent. But right now I hope the entire DT forum community will take a deep breath, keep things in perspective, and get back to basics.

I wish everyone a happy and healthy holiday season. To the development team, kudos, gracias, bravo!

Thanks, paradigm26. You clearly expressed many of the reasons I love this company and its products. Hopefully, people are just overreacting to silly things right now because it’s That Magical Time of the Year and because people have had a lot of time to dream up what DTP 2 might be like. Give it a couple weeks and I think people will realize just how momentous this upgrade (and this company) is…

(Admittedly, I sometimes give DEVONtechnologies a hard time… mostly because I’m an Idea man and have no idea how complex it is to implement $FEATURE).

I couldn’t tell if some of your “ideas” posts from a couple weeks ago where chataquas or manifestos. They certain were chock full of ideas :slight_smile:

I guess you mean “were chautauquas”’; had to look that one up since I’d never seen or heard it before. :slight_smile:

I’ve always had this aura of the bombthrower around me, even when just suggesting improvements to metadata :wink:

It’s plain wrong for a developer to pick an arbitrary price, tell users that price - let them go through the whole checkout process and then hit them with a near 20% extra charge on top.

I’ve just received an email saying my payment ‘failed’ - after writing my honest and fair feelings here on the ‘user’ forum - I was not told before hand that the upgrade price would be $37 after the advertised $30 was asked for.

This company has now rejected my payment ?
How’s that for fair play and decency…

Is that comment from you a freudian slip ?
Or more sycophantic drivel ?

I raise a point that I feel unfair and biased towards the developer and not the end user and this is your attitude ?

Sales tax is generally charged based on the jurisdiction of the purchaser, not the seller. Thus, the appropriate tax rate isn’t even known until you enter your billing address. Perhaps you should complain to your local taxing authorities? Or are you asking DT to give you a discount because you live in a high tax jurisdiction? (Which would be the practical effect of “hiding” the tax rate, since of course DT still has to pay it.)

Have you checked with your credit card company? Such messages are almost always generated by the payment processor, not the vendor, so the rejection probably has nothing to do with your email.


As I expressed previously, let’s take a deep breath, keep things in perspective and have constructive dialog.

Benignstar, giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming you are just quite frustrated and that you find value in the software and are interested in purchasing from DEVONtechnologies, here is a simple suggestion and comment.

  1. Have you tried to contact DEVONtechnologies by email? The forum is probably not the best place to resolve a specific sales issue (particularly how busy it is at the moment). The website Contact page has numerous links, here are two you might try:


  1. You state that processing of your payment “failed” and that they have “now rejected my payment”, relating this to your forum postings. I cannot speak for the company, but this seams unlikely. Not only have I read other comments from disgruntled customers in the forums, take note that generally website shopping carts are automated, including the transaction verification process. A processing “failure” does not mean an individual “rejected” that particular purchase.

Unfortunately your recent post again makes it a personal issue, taking issue with the fairness and decency of the DEVONtechnologies team. Let cooler heads prevail. These personal attacks undercut any arguments you are trying to make. My guess is the failure has nothing to do with trying to prevent you from purchasing their software, albeit with payment including tax.

Give them an opportunity to resolve this situation with you. Both of you will benefit. We all will. If at that point you still believe otherwise (an unlikely outcome), of course you can always choose alternative software.

Send sales an email, let’s get this resolved. Peace . . .

gosh, and i thought this is a forum about using devon products.
i had no idea this was all about you and your personal vendettas.
if you can’t afford the taxes in the EU you can always move to mexico to save 7 dollars on your upgrade. why don’t you just sell your brain on ebay? that wold just about cover it.
companies that do business in the EU pay EU taxes. You know the law and repeating lies in public about good people is a poor negotiating tactic.

Just for extra info. I too had some problems with one of my credit cards… it had nothing to do with DEVONtechnologies. It was a VISA authorization procedure (basically, credit card companies sometimes are over jealous with these processes). Tried with a different credit card (I didn’t want to call VISA and spend half an hour on the phone) and had the serial for DTP in my mail in 2 minutes.

And yes, Katherine is right — if you use a credit card based on US there will be no tax applied, but in most countries in Europe there will be a tax to pay. It is a common and widely known procedure related with tax laws. DEVONtechnologies has to apply them or face the consequences, also by law.

Might be :slight_smile:

Read “Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance” and you’ll get a metric boat-load of them. I mentioned metric, seeing as the main indignant in this thread is an angry Euro :slight_smile:

'Tis one of many books I’ve long wanted to read yet may never get around to. I’m a slow, thoughtful reader.

Ha. And I’m a metric-preferring American anyway, so thanks. :slight_smile:

Being based in England, I know that I have to pay VAT on software.

I do find the DevonThink mention of the tax a touch confusing, though. It’s given as 19%. Is that the German rate of tax or what?

Because British rate has never been that high, it used to be 17.5% and is now 15%. If one clicks on the info link relating to the tax, one does get told that the rate may change depending on the country of delivery.

In my opinion it would all be a lot clearer if that information was provided in the main text rather than in a separate link, and and also if there was an indication of why 19% was the stated rate.