Any hope of a true cloud-based future for Devonthink?

[fluxusquo]

Good answer to a question I have had for a while. Thx.

[avatar]

@cgrunenberg

An upcoming release will simplify this a lot.

What’s this ??? !!!

Moving files in the Finder when they get moved in DTPO?

Nawww… too much to hope for …

But what is it anyway ?

[cgrunenberg]

@avatar

Moving files in the Finder when they get moved in DTPO?

That will be one of the improvements.

[avatar]

@cgrunenberg

Moving files in the Finder when they get moved in DTPO?

That will be one of the improvements.

YES !!! Keep It up !

[frmoses]

@ZeppoVA

As far as I know, for iCloud keeps copies of everything it syncs on each Mac. Meaning that the working DT database is on each Mac in the Documents folder AND the syncstor document is downloaded from iCloud by the Mac in the local iCloud folder. The sync files include the actual files I put in or index with DEVONthink so if a DB is 1 GB in size, the Mac now has about 2 GB of disc space taken up between the database and the syncstor (synced via iCloud) Do I have that right?

Apps can sync via iCloud without the data coming back to the Mac, it is different than iCloud Drive. Try it with a small database, I would think the iCloud syncing is not putting the data in iCloud Drive per se, and therefore not redownloading it onto the Mac. I sync via Dropbox and they suggest disabling the sync store folder so it doesn’t do this very thing. I have and it works great. I think iCloud Sync has been designed to operate this way automatically, but BLUEFROG should chime in and confirm.

[nm1]

@ZeppoVA

BTW my databases are about 50 GB total and sync fine and relatively quickly using a WebDAV set up on a low powered Synology NAS.

Would you elaborate a bit more on the WebDAV setup with your NAS? Are you actually syncing to the NAS via WebDAV, or are you storing your database(s) on the Synology, accessing on your Mac via WebDAV, and syncing via iCloud? Part of my confusion from what you wrote is that it seems like you’re syncing both to iCloud and to the Synology via WebDAV, but I’m not sure how using two different sync locations would not cause conflicts.

[ZeppoVA]

@nm1

Would you elaborate a bit more on the WebDAV setup with your NAS? Are you actually syncing to the NAS via WebDAV, or are you storing your database(s) on the Synology, accessing on your Mac via WebDAV, and syncing via iCloud? Part of my confusion from what you wrote is that it seems like you’re syncing both to iCloud and to the Synology via WebDAV, but I’m not sure how using two different sync locations would not cause conflicts.

nm1: I use a desktop, a laptop, and a couple iOS devices. I do not store Devonthink databases one the nas.

• The desktop is the primary Mac and all databases are stored on the local drive. Some of the files in those databases are in the database and some are indexed (some indexed from the local drive and some indexed from normal shared drives on the Synology)
• I set up the Synology to enable it to be a WebDav and set that webdav as a SyncStor location in DTPO for all the databases on the desktop. Created a Synology shared folder that is used only for the DTP SyncStore location
• on both the laptop and the iOS devices, I added that WebDav location in DTPO and DTTG, respectively, and sync few databases on the laptop and only a couple on the iOS devices

So, all databases on the desktop using the Synology webdav as a syncstor location for syncing and selected databases are on the laptop and iOS devices that get synced to the webdav syncstor. That all works fine.

I was unsure if I could use 2 sync locations simultaneously without problems (the Synology webdav and iCloud) so I added iCloud as a SyncStor location on the desktop and chose some of the databases to use it. Some of the databases used both the webdav and iCloud as SyncStors and some of the databases used just the synology webdav as SyncStors. That seems to work fine and I don’t beehive I had any conflicts, duplications, or issues with files kept within, or indexed to, DTPO.

The challenge I had is that of storage required when using iCloud as a syncstor location, which I tried for a short time and then stopped. It worked fine to sync between the Macs and iOS devices. But since everything put in iCloud Drive is duplicated on each Mac, both the working DTPO databases and the files in the syncstor (located on iCloud Drive) would get put on each Mac. So the would be the databases located in the Documents folder where I want them AND the syncstor files that iCloud Drive copied in the iCloud Drive folder on the Mac. That consumed more space that I could afford on the laptop.

As far as I know, there is not a way to have selective sync from iCloud Drive to a Mac (like what is possible with Dropbox).

Anyway - that is how I sync and manage space re DTPO. If I miss understand capabilities or how Devonthink sync works/ could work or how iCloud Drive could work with Devonthink, I would be happy for a correction.

If I had a wish for the kind and knowledgable folks at Devonthink, it would be that they provide a straightforward explanation of how sync can work from the user view so we know what to expect and can choose with minimal experimentation. I could not find information on what happens, or file safety of using 2 syncstor locations for the same database. Perhaps the info is there and I just could not find it so I spent the time doing trial and error.

Hope that is clear and answers you question.

[rkaplan]

I just saw the announcement about the Beta 3.0.

Server version and web interface seem interesting - I will explore those.

Is the concept of a “server edition” new or have I somehow missed that for a while? That might be very much what I have been seeking as an alternative to Syncing data.

[BLUEFROG]

DEVONthink 2.x also had a web server, but it was a much simpler affair. DEVONthink 3’s web server is built and intended for business, academic, and group collaboration with secure connections, certificate support, users, and per-database permissions.

[rkaplan]

I gave it a try - much much nicer than the server on 2.0. Especially regarding the ability to share and view PDF files.

For me at least, this is much better than Syncing because it means I can access my info on any computer, any time.

Can the server be accessed via iOS or only from a Mac desktop browser?

[rkaplan]

One question if I could on the new server… It appears that I can upload documents to the folder of my choice, but I cannot move a document from one folder to another using the server interface. Is that correct? Any reason why it would not be possible to move items just as can be done from the main desktop interface?

[BLUEFROG]

Can the server be accessed via iOS or only from a Mac desktop browser?

In a browser, Mac, PC, or mobile - however for use off your network, you’d have to configure your router/environment for proper port-forwarding and handle your own security concerns (both outside our scope).

[BLUEFROG]

If the user accessing the websharing has permissions to Organize the database, items can certainly be moved around in the browser. Drag and item and pause over the receiving group - in the item list or the Navigate sidebar - and it will highlight showing it will receive a drop.

[rkaplan]

OK I see that now - very nice. Thanks

[BLUEFROG]

You’re welcome.

[jsn]

Wondering if there might be any way to implement a similar system to what these guys are doing with their encryption services?

Private Notes App & Online Notepad with Password Protect | Notesnook

They explain better than I can here: How is my data encrypted? | Notesnook Docs

Idea would be that DT would offer a native encryption and provide a paid sync to cloud service that offers versioning. I would really prefer to have a paid and managed backup with versioning than to rely on my own scripting. Not sure if that’s the reason everybody else is looking for a solution in the past, but it seems like a nice way to ensure that a user’s data is always protected and also ensure that there are versions of backups available if anything is corrupted or accidentally changed.

[chrillek]

There are backup services like Arq already which provide encryption and incremental backups. What exactly are you missing from them?

[Blanc]

The team required for implementation and maintenance of an always available, secure, global cloud service is probably at least an order of magnitude larger than the current DEVONtech team. Seriously complex questions such as in whose jurisdiction you place the server(s) and which users you are aiming the service at have to be asked. I suspect that the potential benefits to DEVONtech would never exceed the potential costs. I would assume that

@BLUEFROG

And no, there are no plans to create a cloud service for DEVONthink. This is a heavily saturated space and full of liabilities. Also, local resources are faster, more reliable, and more private than networked ones. Lastly, we advocate a decentralized data model where each device has a copy of the data and syncs to a commonly accessible location.

remains the official DT response; whilst I understand users who want a cloud service I, for one explicitly sought software which provided local storage and sync.

[DTLow]

@jsn

I would really prefer to have a paid and managed backup with versioning than to rely on my own scripting.

Backup with versioning is a different discussion
My backup strategy includes versioning via Mac Time Machine (local)
I’m contemplating cloud solutions like Arq

[fillmore]

I agree. Although not the only reason I switched to DT several years ago, it was one of the reasons. I want the comfort of putting whatever I want into DT without worrying about where else that information is residing.