Simple in concept. Two solutions at least. [example 1 ]. identify why Devonthink approach to syncing with dropbox, iCloud kit, etc are causing problems. For example if it is the complex package of data or the sync store, modify them so they are more compatible with the syncing products processes of dropbox, iCloud, etc. I understand this may not be possible, but I am not a developer and can’t say. But for example, and I know this is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison but it illustrates what I mean. Many, but not all, of my DT databases are indexed from folders of files, documents, spreadsheets, HTML docs, etc that are resident on Dropbox or iCloud Drive on my Macs. [no DT databases in these locations, I am aware of the dangers of doing that]. All of these files sync flawlessly to my other Macs and iPads via the internet. So there is something different about the DT that causes problems. Can it be changed to be more compatible with the syncing services? I don’t know but pose it as a thought experiment. The devs of course can choose not to do so and maybe can’t do so because of the nature of the DT database structure. so I understand this may not be possible. EXAMPLE 2. Develop their own DT syncing service that integrates better with the DT databases, sync store, etc. They have not done this and that is ok, that is a different business, it is their choice, and it may not really be feasible. I don’t know. For a more tortured analogy, I compare DT to a Porsche that drives superbly on autobahn or interstate highways [normal use on Macs, local sync store [exit ramps], or sync over local wifi. But when I take a porsche off paved highways onto a dirt road [drop box, iCloud] I may or may not get where I want to go because it is not really optimized for off-road travel and that is not its main purpose, I don’t blame the car or DT. 
don’t get me wrong, I love DT and have used it for years for work and personal use and will continue to do so. Jim Neuman has also been very helpful in unscrambling sync issues for me when they go haywire.
For what it’s worth …
Based on observations (and I’m not aware of any statistics on this) in this forum, DEVONthink Dropbox syncing not related to many issues that are attributed to DEVONthink; whereas Apple’s CloudKit, and the deprecated iCloud, are definitely unreliable and probably the root-cause of issues for a very significant number of people reporting issues here and noticed by developers of other commercial apps. See the many links here.
I do notice that some of the issues caused by user’s not quite understanding how to setup things, but once that over-come (normally by re-reading the “DEVONthink Handbook” sections on synching) seems to resolve issue. I accept that absence of reporting is not necessarily evidence of absence of problems, but there you go.
My understanding is that Dropbox provides a “richer” and more compete API for sync services. Could be one of the things you seek to identify as root cause (but not really news).
And we notice that syching with WebDAV and Bonjour both appear (and are based on my experience), based on reports (or lack there of) here reliable and in the case of Bonjour, fast. WebDAV third-party services are available on the 'net.
I thought I posted this a while back, but the forum software saved it as a draft, so I guess not. Long story short, I am pretty pleased with DT’s position as an application that provides a wealth of features, including encryption, along with relatively reliable sync.
I can’t say whether DEVONthink ought to do one thing or another, because for my use case, the current implementation is more or less what I need (sync irritations aside). I admit, though, that I don’t quite understand the problems or “true cloud-based” suggestions that have been suggested thus far in the thread, so maybe there is a great leap forward I could be making somewhere.
- Cloud sync? Yes (I use Dropbox).
- Backups and “versioning”? Sure (I use Time Machine and many of my files live in Dropbox and get indexed by DT, so they are double versioned / backed up–mentioned earlier by Airestocky).
Perhaps I need more information about those workflows to imagine where the pain points are.
On top of the benefits I usually associate with cloud services (sync and backups / versions), I also get “unlimited” everything (uploads, downloads, exports, imports, file sizes, file types, etc.) , zero-knowledge encryption, AI, and automatic sorting of my files.
I don’t know if DT is ahead or behind anything—I don’t know of anyone with encryption for the entire database and they don’t even keep a copy of our data in their servers, so it seems to me that they might be “ahead” of everyone. Then again, I thought everyone would have gone all in with encryption in 2013, but that didn’t happen.
I have complaints about my workflow, but most of these have more to do with the sync irritations I mentioned—a complaint about the false promise of everything in the “cloud” itself than with failings in any particular app (I have never lived in this meta-versical 24/7 WiFi environment, and even if I did, no service syncs data “instantaneously”).
As for Apple’s “it just works” ideal, my experience has been that it is more aspirational than operational. I prefer it to all of the other available options, but in reality, it often fails to “just work” for me (AirDrop, sudden iPad resets, iCloud outages, hardware failures, and the notorious keyboard “improvements” that sent me to Apple stores for repairs half a dozen times).
Until these processes change again. Apple’ sync is notoriously unreliable even with their own products – what would you suggest they do?
Just think of the mess they made with Shortcuts, the ongoing drama with PDFKit, the increasing lack of discoverability in their UI… Not to mention their abismal record when it comes to implement recent web technologies in Safari or intranspatent and slow handling of security issues.
Not sure I have anything to add here, but I did want to pop up and say I am a new customer (<6 months) and I chose DT after lots of research specifically because it didn’t offer cloud services. Whilst cloud services are great for ease (much of the time, YMMV), there are significant concerns that have yet to be overcome:
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Security, privacy (if anything these issues are multiplying)
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Access (by nature they are reliant on infrastructure that is not always available, also, given the significant instability in the current world, problems may increase rather than decrease. Good luck getting on the cloud when your local network junction just got taken out by a storm…)
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Power usage (cloud servers require power. We live in a world where massive changes in our lifestyles are needed so that we can stop destroying the planet. Storing files locally is much less resource-heavy than extensive server networks. I’m an environmental scientist, I have to bring this up but I realise it’s not likely to be at the front of many of your use cases!)
In summary: I have a hard-drive on my laptop and it works great, let me use it 
P.S. I’ve run sync via iCloud across my Mac, iPad and iPhone since I bought DT and have had no errors. I set it up according to the manual (which did take a little figuring out). I do a lot of work with the iPad. (I use iPhone less, mostly for quick amends or reading.) I’ve had a huge amount of work to do moving all my files in DT, so I feel that though I’m a “young” user DT and DTTG have had to do a large amount of heavy lifting in the last few months to absorb all my files, and it’s worked seamlessly.
Actually I possibly have something else to add here (turns out I do have things to say after all 
). I’ve noticed an immediate problem in the last month or so with Microsoft’s decision to move OneDrive files to the cloud instead of storing locally on Macs like they did previously (discussed in this forum and elsewhere on the web). Before, my files were available on my Mac (if it was synced) and I could work with them offline. Now, there is friction:
Firstly, I have to wait for OneDrive to download whichever file I want to have a look in.
Secondly, if I’m not online at the time, I now don’t have access to my files. OneDrive seems to assume I will download the files I need before I go offline, because we know all humans know in advance that they suddenly need to pull up a file about XXX from 2 years ago.
Whilst again, I suspect they think all people live in Silicon Valley with no doubt excellent internet speeds and access, most of the world does not in fact live like this. If I’m out and about working “in the field”, it’s not unreasonable that I might like access to my own files.
The OneDrive switch was interesting for me because it implemented in real time concerns I’ve had about cloud services, and I sort of got to “live the problems” for real.
I don’t suggest anything, I am not a programmer or developer. If Apple’s sync is unsuitable, fine, I do not care and would use something else.I am a long time user of DT and am merely making a comment about an opportunity for improvement. I am not doing a root cause analysis. As far as singling out iCloud sync, I did not. I used dropbox for years before iCloud kit came out and also had periodic glitches with DT syncing there but not with other none DT folders or files. For all my files, and I have over a TB in iCloud drive, hundreds of GB’s in iCloud photos and many GB’s in dropbox [I still use both dropbox and iCloud Drive], all the files sync fine between my computers. I don’t really care about cloud kit, pdf kit, dropbox , webdav, bonjour, or any other buzzword named syncing approaches. I just want DT to sync remotely between Macs and iPads seamlessly, silently, all the time, and without having to fiddle with it. enough of me on this thread, signing off and Thanks for the fish.
Well, you can of course desire whatever you want. And you can choose to ignore technically constraints as you wish.
I don’t think that this is a reasonable approach, though. And, btw, I always had music and photos that Apple did not synchronize across devices. Which proves that their service is not reliable and they don’t know how to make it so. Which in turn shows that companies relying on Apple’s cloud will run into problems, too. And there’s nothing they can do about it.
I have a few terabytes of data in the cloud, so I wouldn’t say I am anti-cloud, but I certainly have concerns about it that make me leery of the solutions that are spun out by Microsoft, Meta-Facebook, Google Apple, and other cloudy visionaries.
Everyone has to evaluate their own needs and the risks / benefits involved with whatever workflow they choose–some folks may well prefer an entirely cloud-based solution with nothing at all downloaded onto their devices, and while I can see the appeal, I doubt I will ever be able to embrace that vision.
(1) Unreliability
In my experience, if I cannot access and use everything without a connection to the cloud (relying on the Internet or the availability of someone’s servers) then I avoid that workflow, because it is unreliable.
(2) Lack of Privacy / Security
If possible, I want everything I put online to be encrypted, because my grocery list, research, health records, and anything else that I digitize are no one else’s business. Just as I wouldn’t let random folks wander around in my home digging through my stuff, I don’t want to hand over my stuff to a company, and this is one of the conditions you generally have to accept with most cloud solutions.
(3) Lack of Control
Many companies, at one point or another, make terrible mistakes handling our data. It’s just a fact of life, in my opinion, and I think if you do any kind of work online you will eventually encounter something awful. Even with the best intentions, bad stuff happens. In the end, the more control you have over your data, the better you’ll be able to overcome these challenges. Most of the time, letting go and leaving everything up to one of these cloud companies is quite liberating, convenient, and productive–until it isn’t, and then your data is gone, sometimes forever. They say “whoops, sorry.” We generally face far more severe consequences. We discover we are enslaved by the cloud and there is nothing convenient or productive in having to start all over from 0 (or hopelessly jumbled / corrupted), sometimes after years of work.
(4) DEVONthink
One of the things I really like about DT is that they don’t have the keys to my data (zero-knowledge encryption). Neither does Dropbox. If a hacker / state tries to steal / demand my data from Dropbox, presumably, all DB can do is hand over an encrypted blob. If a hacker / state tries to steal / demand my data from DT, presumably, all DB can do is hand over whatever data they have gleaned about me from my purchase of the product and my posts on these forums, because they don’t have any of my data. In the words of the “Protagonist” in Tenet, “this is knowledge divided.” Assuming we can avoid any temporal pincer movements (Tenet fans know what I am talking about), we should be able to go about our lives without being adversely affected by hackers, states, or mistakes made by developers.
Your mileage may vary.
I want what nishiazabu wants (“I just want DT to sync remotely between Macs and iPads seamlessly, silently, all the time, and without having to fiddle with it”). I hope that the sync will continue to improve over time, but I don’t expect that it will ever be perfect, and I set up my workflow with the assumption that sync might fail at any moment, because everyone has messed up sync at some point (YMMV) , even Apple, Dropbox, and Google. I am pretty happy with what DT has created and whatever they do in the future (whatever a “true cloud-based future” is), I hope they retain these benefits for users.
Just to repeat what I said earlier in the thread… I am really not interested in DT providing a cloud service. It is one of the reasons that I moved away from Evernote (although there were many others). I trust Apple from a security point of view more than Google or Microsoft or Dropbox or AWS (I use AWS S3 for monthly archiving but only upload encrypted ZIPs.)
I know that iCloud has some issues, but I have 4 databases that I sync through CloudKit between my Macs (and two of them to my iPhone and iPad) and, honestly, I don’t have any issues. I am one of the lucky ones I also sync one database between my Macs and my wife’s Mac through a shared folder on my NAS without any problems.
Very much agree. There was a time I too hoped for a cloud-based Devonthink. But syncing on my Synology accomplishes that just as well - and I get to own my data. There is a huge trend toward cloud-based apps and data migration/longevity is a huge issue even aside from privacy. There is much to be said for having my data on my own computer or my own NAS.