Hi! I’ve been working with DEVONthink for many years, but for the past two weeks I’ve been using it intensively with the aim of creating a Slip-Box, a file box in the spirit of the Zettelkasten developed by Niklas Luhmann. DEVONthink is a very effective tool, but I’m struggling to understand how to solve the following problem: I’m trying to develop a database that would gather all the documents I need for my research in the field of humanities: sources, notes, links, essentially.
So far, I’ve created several databases in which these files — PDFs and Markdowns — are gathered. In the spirit of Zettelkasten, I’d now like to be able to transform some of my so-called permanent notes into structured notes. The latter gather a set of notes ordered according to a generally thematic order. To do this, I need to duplicate the permanent notes I’m using. But, because I’ve created different databases, these notes aren’t considered duplicates by DEVONthink: they’re copies of existing files. So, when I run a search, I can’t easily locate files I’ve already copied.
I thought about exporting my structured notes to Tinderbox. But I prefer the idea of a single database.
Hence my question: if any of you have created a somewhat similar file, a slipbox, and if you use multiple databases, how do you distinguish between permanent notes and structured notes? Or, do you use Take Note View to copy and paste links to notes and then rework them into new notes?
@dominiquerenauld - how about setting up new databases by theme/topic and then, for each file you want to convert to a structured note use the existing file’s context menu "Duplicate To->(Selected Database) to create it in the new database? As @kewms wrote, the links will connect across databases, even when closed, but you can still use DT as a Zettlekasten. I’ve been using it as such for a while. I don’t use Take Note because of the way it deals with links. However, if you make Zettlekasten note templates in markdown to conform to Luhmann’s system, bi-directional note linking works fine. A Zettlekasten Permanent Note, what you would call a structured note, is attached as a PDF because this site won;t let me upload a markdown file. You have to make the Permanent Note in markdown then Export it to a template that lives in DT’s template folder. Then convert your duplicate note to a Zettlekasten form. P-Note.pdf (19.1 KB)
structured notes are “compiled notes” which are used to create a paper, right?
I’m not sure why you’re trying to keep everything in DEVONthink. For this step I use scrivener.
I’ve worked a lot on zettelkasten stuff here in Devonthink. You can check out some of my incoherent thoughts through my post history. I’ve gotten to the point where everything clicks for me.
Thanks for the feedback. I just consolidated my 9 databases into one, and I can clearly see the benefit of a single database.
In case the idea comes back to me, I have two nice wooden index card boxes ready to use, just like in the good old days. In fact, I’m not trying to duplicate the Zettelkasten method exactly. I’m just using the basics in a modified digital environment.
That’s it: I compile notes with the aim of, first, reworking them and, second, turning this reworking into a research article. Since it’s very easy to merge notes into a single document, I export everything to RStudio and rewrite. Or, when the work is already well advanced, I use Scrivener or Tinderbox in combination with RStudio.
Another way I’ve worked on compiled notes is actually replicating them into a group, and sub groups then I move them into scrivener for the final draft.. But you can always drag the DEVONthink notes into scrivener directly and rearrange them there then work on the final draft. I think that’s more efficient and your best option since you can always merge notes in scrivener or view all scrivenings in a group as one..
Not exactly. I don’t use fleeting notes much. Either I’m making a permanent note, or I’m not making one at all.
The permanent notes are like reference material which could be reused in different contexts (papers, output stuff).
Discussion of DEVONthink and ZK has been common in this forum for a long time. Search other ideas, here.
I appreciate Jeff Taekman’s approach. Though he uses several apps, that’s not necessary. You can eliminate Obsidian from his process by using one database. You can eliminate Drafts from his process by using DEVONthink’s Take Note tools.
I don’t think you need all the different databases and stuff – why not shove the processed notes into a group named “done”? meanwhile, just make your structured notes and link when needed and group them or tag them as appropriate, and you’ll see it all fall into place.
I learned research and notes on index cards – 3x5 for quotes and notes, and 4x6 for sources or authoritative… some colors on the edges and piling them up and sorting them were ways to process. All of that is possible in DEVONthink and much more – I used to “link” index cards with references encircled in blue to the identifier of another card - so I’d need to lay the cards out on a table and arrange them to show the links and groups. Tinderbox has map view, which allows for some of that, but really, hyperlinking in DEVONthink does well, since you can flip back and forth instantly and grouping can help show weighty topics, etc.
Just start doing something and maybe look at smart templates to make you structured notes, and add a way for you to collect those processed notes in a smart group or with filtering. then you can see progress of your work…
here’s another way to do it: make the unprocessed note a Parent, by using the “take annotation” script…
really, just start trying these because you can always change it later – you may find one method works for some things, and a different method works better for others – DEVONthink is so flexible that it can handle it, but more importantly, it’s so versatile that it will help you easily switch it all around later if you need to!
an even easier way is to use the metadatafields. That’s how I reference the sources, and you can add whatever other data you want. It makes it easier to view a collection when you search for that field. Overcomplicating the process will just make one not want to continue with this kind of organization.
‘Annotations’, ‘Notes’ everywhere in the database (even with Replicants Notes) ==> all tagged (permanent and in progress) ==> and than Smart Folders (‘permanent’ and in progress or other if I need something special) work fine for me.
I work with indexed DB in DT so I can manage notes externally with typora, or the Archive Or nvULTRA …
I use multiple DThink database for very different arguments or works.
I save the notes in a folder dedicated inside Mac.
Then I index that folder in DT ==> The Synchro between finder-folder and DT is very good, (almost in real time) so I can write and review in typora (for example for better mermaid maps) or the Archive or DT.
In DT I assign tags to every note and create smart groups for my zettelkasten.
I use, for my ZK, tags with this names: “zk-in_progress” and “zk-permanent”.
But if it is necessary more, I assigne more tags (in DT) for other smart groups.
I Think smart groups in DT are very usefull.
They miss me on iPad. For now I can only read them on iPAD, but don’t create.
In the Finder it is important you don’t move your notes out of the folder indexed in DT.
For me the work of ZK is done in DT.
But you could make it also in the Archive, if you want. Obvioulsy that work you do in the Archive is not available in DT (the tag Systems names are differents, but maybe it would be a way to make them similar, I have not tried).
