Consistently Losing Pages Files

I use Pages for all the things and have moved all my Pages documents into DT. In moving everything over initially I had the odd, old file that DT either couldn’t find/accept or rejected. I didn’t know how to fix it and assumed it was a very old version of Pages.

But it has happened again with a recent Pages file. This is a copy of the warning I receive:

Perhaps after opening a Pages doc stored in DT, and editing it in the Pages app (which opens automatically), I then need to redrag it back into DT? But with some of the Pages doc’s I open in DT and edit in Pages, I can see the changes happening to the doc opened and visible in DT automatically; I don’t have to redrag the document back.

So, given the inconsistencies, there is obviously something about this process I do not understand. And I don’t really want to lose the current Pages document, so I’d like to “help DT” find it.

TIA

This is the Log warning I receive. The “Missing File” seems to mean, to me, that I didn’t send it back to DT once I was done making additions. It shows up on my Mac hard drive as a DT document with a Document Kind as pages. I click on that, arrive in DT, open the file and get the top image in this thread.

I would check and see if iCloud is yanking it off to their server. It can be pretty aggressive, especially with files from Apple’s own software.

Good thought; nothing there (empty).

Is the file indexed or imported ? if indexed is it in as @kewms infers in a cloud synced folder? If indexed did you update the index in DEVONthink? If In a cloud synced folder is that third party sync service set to keep files offline/local (or whatever words they use).

Indexed? Imported? iCloud Pages is empty. “Update the index in DEVONthink?” I don’t know what that means. In DEVONthink I selected the file; I double clicked it to open it in Pages so I could modify the document; I saved my work. Doing this previously, I would go back to DEVONthink to verify the changes in Pages were showing up on the copy stored in DEVONthink (and they were).

This file is in the DEVONthink file list. Now when I click on that to open it, the bottom part of the screen/app gives me the orange, Pages screenshot I posted at the top of this thread.

Where? Post a screen capture of what you’re looking at.

My apologies; when I searched for the file name, my Mac bumped me from “Macintosh HD” which I had selected, up to “Deb’s MacBook Pro (2)” without my realizing it. So this is a screen shot of the name of the file. When I click on the DT image, I see the orange/Pages image I supplied at the top of this thread.

This screenshot is not helpful, since it doesn’t show where on the Mac the file is stored. Which folder exactly.
Also, you should know the difference between imported and indexed files in DT. It’s well described in the manual and what you can or should not do with files in DT depends on if they are being indexed or imported.
Finally, there’s in my experience no need to „send back“ Pages documents to DT if they are imported. And I don’t index, ever. But what you should not do is rename a document in Pages that you opened there from DT.

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No worries!
That’s Spotlight metadata pointing at an imported file in your database.

Did you happen to change the filename while you were in Pages?

I was merely doing as BLUEFROG requested, not judging the helpfulness of the screenshot.

I do now know the difference between imported and indexed. Thanks for your rebuke. My understanding was that I have now, and will continue to, import/send everything into DT; that is its purpose for me.

Thank you for telling me I do not need to resave Pages documents into DT after I have modified them, ie DT picks up on the edits and updates the imported copy of the doc to reflect the same.

I cannot remember if I changed the name, but I may have.

Would that explain what’s happened? If I did edit the name, wouldn’t it still be in Pages?

Knowing if this is what happened would help ensure I don’t experience this again. I am about to begin a doctoral program and can’t run the risk of this happening because I am doing something incorrectly inadvertently. Thanks for the help.

The interesting question is if you saved the file from Pages after changing its name. That’s what, in my experience, causes trouble with DT.

I completed a doctorate many years ago, partly with the help of DEVONthink, so perhaps you will allow me to offer some ideas.

Make sure you really understand how your computer works. Phrases like “wouldn’t it still be in Pages?” make me wonder if you have made some invalid assumptions about how certain programs work. Maybe it is just a loose turn of phrase, but I’ve noticed that people sometimes conceptualise things in ways that are not helpful (my doctorate is in psychology, so perhaps I am unusually alert to the way people phrase things). While documents might be said to be in DEVONthink, because it is a database, the same concept does not really hold with Pages, because it just accesses files wherever they happen to be on your hard drive. As your DEVONthink database is on your hard drive, Pages can access a Pages file that sits inside the database. But it is not in Pages. And Pages will not keep tabs on where your document is in the same way that DEVONthink does. Anyway, there is something to be said for reading all the manuals and casting aside preconceived ideas and assumptions, because they may not actually be valid. Psychologists have found a certain amount of evidence to show that previous experience can actually be an obstacle to learning, precisely because people make assumptions based on that experience, which may then lead them down completely the wrong path. This problem seems to be particularly acute in computing, where people have a tendency to assume that a new program is like one they are used to using and works in the same way. Much heartache results from finding out the differences – sometimes too late.

You probably know all this, so forgive me if I am stating the obvious. And I hope @BLUEFROG will not find what I have written to be misleading. If it is, I’m sure he will correct it.

The other thing I would say is: make sure you have a really solid backup strategy. I heard a story of a woman who had a laptop stolen from a locker with three years worth of research on it, and she had no other copy … Evaluate Backblaze and Arq. They are worth it.

Good luck with the doctorate. I hope you are not as tired as I was when I finished mine.
MartinBB.

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No, you should not change the name via the title bar in Pages (or other third party application).

Here I opened a Pages document and changed the name…

…and immediately DEVONthink notices the file it knew about is missing…

And yes, if you change the name back to the original one, DEVONthink will settle down.

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If I change the name back… even after a bit of time? like, not necessarily before I do a pages save, post my edits?

Well, it appears this is the answer and what I must have done. I now know not to change the name via the title bar in Pages. If it is necessary, will these work:

  1. change the name in Pages titlebar (knowing it will no longer be accessible via DT) and send/drag that into DT, treating it as a “new to DT” file
  2. copy the content of that pages document; create a new Pages document with the new name; paste copied content into that new document; drag/send to DT.

But it would appear both options would do the same thing? Just checking for understanding.

Thank you so much for your generosity, Martin. I really appreciate this.

I know there is much I don’t know, hence my being here. Some answers leave me filling in gaps, and going “ah… so that’s how that works,” along with recognizing my lack of vocabulary in this world poses challenges for all concerned. I will try to find good sources to fill in the gaps you point out as part of my ramping up to start this work.

I am a very visual learner; mapping out how my pieces fit/work together, how they interact/talk to each other, and how my computer works in general will help with my understanding.

Regarding backups, I am planning on using Time Machine (hourly backups). Do you think this is sufficient?

Again, thank you.

When you import a file into Devonthink, or when you save a file into the Devonthink inbox, DT finds a place to put it. The DT database is a MacOS package, which means it a folder like any other folder on your system except that the Finder will display it as one monolithic thing.

Devonthink manages a tree of folders inside the database package that bear no resemblance to the groups you see in the Devonthink application.

The most important thing is that Devonthink decides where an imported file goes. It keeps track of where it put your file and it also keeps track of where you want to see it in the groups you create in the user interface.

When you rename a file outside of Devonthink, you’re renaming a file in a Devonthink-managed folder. To Devonthink, a file that’s supposed to be there can’t be found. There’s a new file that would get picked up if you repaired the database, but Devonthink would never know that file was really the old one.

For instance, I created a Markdown file called testjunk containing “Hello, world.”

I right clicked it, used the “Show in Finder” option we probably should never use, and renamed it from testjunk.md to not-here.md outside of Devonthink.

The log window popped up with an error and I got the missing file display for my now “missing” testjunk file.

Once again, I used Show in Finder on the missing file, this time just getting to the internal folder where the file was stored. Sure enough, in that folder was not-here.md. I renamed it back to testjunk.md and Devonthink was happy again.

Of course, never do that. If I had any self esteem, I wouldn’t, either.

Let Devonthink handle file names and internal locations. And never use an application’s lock feature. Lock files in Devonthink. The padlock in Pages will interfere with DT’s file management. I will never admit why I know that other than to say @BLUEFROG is an excellent resource.

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Thanks for everyone’s explanations around renaming files – I’ve sometimes been guilty of changing names in the title bar, and that may expolain, for those in DT I may have done it with, why I have occasionally had missing file errors.

Knowing they’re still in the database and I can just rename to their former name (using the error message to guide me on what that was) is a great help.

And thanks @Deb_Too for asking the question in the first place so I can learn along with you :slight_smile:

Sean

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Wow. Thank you so much, Amontillado. That explanation was really, really helpful. I created a map as I read your words. So helpful. :slightly_smiling_face:

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