DEVONthink for Note-Taking?

DEVONthink
21

This is actually not totally accurate. Check this out…
This file…

image
image1184×814 47.7 KB

is this under-the-hood:

{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\cocoartf2709
\cocoatextscaling0\cocoaplatform0{\fonttbl\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Avenir-Book;}
{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;}
{\*\expandedcolortbl;;}
{\info
{\author ApolloX}}\pard\tx720\tx1440\tx2160\tx2880\tx3600\tx4320\tx5040\tx5760\tx6480\tx7200\tx7920\tx8640\slleading24\pardirnatural\partightenfactor0

\f0\fs28 \cf0 This is an RTF file.}

Is it imaginable that nobody supplies a “converter” that transforms rtf into a new standard format?

DEVONthink already can convert rich text into plain text (or other formats) via Data > Convert.

3 Likes
22

I use only DT for my note-making. No other app is required as I love simplicity and all the options I have in DT. I make my notes using rtf. They are future proof as long as I can convert them to any other format using DT :).

7 Likes
23

Jim’s posted below your post to show you why RTF isn’t “plain” behind the scenes, it does carry some code. However it is designed to be read by a human like plain text is, and as you can see in Jim’s example one you skim the code you can see the words typed in the file (plain text is very similar but without as much code present).

However to answer the question you’ve been hinting at throughout your posts in your thread, RTF is unlikely to be going anywhere. It’s the code framework behind which Microsoft Word operates (though to be clear .docx are a different file type!), and has been a mainstay of word processing for decades. Even if Microsoft and Apple decided to no longer support it - I don’t know why they would make that decision - a lot of the world would grind to a halt without it and someone would produce a solution! In any case, Microsoft and Apple are not the only organisations making word processors, and most word processors can handle RTF, so you’d be fine.

So, from a longevity perspective, you’re fine in RTF or plain text/md.

I use markdown, since you’ve been asking :slight_smile: I am not writing for online. I like it because it’s simple, because I don’t have to worry about being locked in to an app, a lot of my files are tiny (size wise and writing wise, often they’re 1000 words or less). A big plus for me is that I can copy and paste the text to other apps without invisible formatting being copied over too. Because I may be moving comments from my database to Google Docs, emails, Slack, etc., I appreciate using a file type that doesn’t require me to strip formatting (Google Docs and Word are both quite bad for carrying hidden formatting, which is a pain when you’re moving text about). As a very basic example, if I copy some text from a Markdown and paste it in an email, it automatically matches the style format of the email because it has no formatting of its own to override my settings.

6 Likes
24

Thank you @MsLogica, that reassures me. If rft was a dying format, I would have to act now because all my texts are rtf. I see the advantages of Markdown more clearly now. And I also see advantages for me. If I were 30 years younger, I might switch. :slightly_smiling_face:

Ah, what else I wanted to ask, are such things also part of rtf?

image

25

And one more advantage of Markdown: because it’s a plain-text format, you can apply regex transformations to tidy up your document or completely reshape it, which is particularly useful for Annotations documents and others with text quotes and links. It’s still possible in rich text if you use something like Nisus Writer as your external editor, but a plain-text format is much more straightforward.

Note-taking is a capacious term; it depends a lot on what kinds of “notes” you’re taking, and on what, and under what circumstances, and for what purpose, and what you’re going to do with them subsequently. DT excels at taking notes on documents; in my (academic) world, that makes it a key tool for commenting on manuscripts, taking notes on (on-screen) reading, live notetaking in seminars or meetings where there’s a precirculated handout or other meeting document, and so forth. But if I’m taking live notes without a document, whether in person or in an online session, there’s no particular advantage to DT as an input system, and I’m more likely to use OmniOutliner (for speed and on-the-fly structure) or Craft (for Markdown and sync across devices).

3 Likes
26

Now that you mention it … Good point. In addition, you can even include JavaScript to do weird things in the HTML preview.

27

And because of that I can just repeat myself:

I would like to write in rich text because I like to just write and not have to first think about if I had to type a backlash in front of a certain character that happens to be used for Markdown markup. But at some point I switched to Markdown. And this is why:

  • Markdown is plain text and therefore scripts easily can alter it in any way I want it to get altered. And, unlike rich text notes, the processing of Markdown notes does not require them to be in the active window, which means Smart Rules can handle the processing in the background.

  • While DEVONthink keeps all my notes (and more), the actual note taking for me happens mostly not in DEVONthink. Note taking means for me first of all a fast, at best single click/tap way to jot. I do a lot of note taking on mobile devices. And on these devices the majority of note taking apps—at least to my knowledge—don’t use rich text. I use Drafts which even runs on the Apple Watch.

  • Footnotes! Footnotes! Footnotes! Apple did not implement RTF footnotes but invented the RTF package format RTFD. And lost interest in it again. RTFD is a dead end, limited to some apps on Mac only, not even supported by the present version of Apple’s very own Pages anymore. My main writing app is Scrivener, which, despite it is a rich text app, imports Markdown files with footnotes without any problem. It’s actually even better than without any problems: Scrivener even distinguishes between “standard” Markdown footnotes and MultiMarkdown’s inline/random footnotes and splits them into footnote and endnote streams. So: Endnotes! Endnotes! Endnotes!

1 Like
28

Yes, you can highlight, strikethrough, and use colors in RTF.

Be aware, though, that not all RTF editors implement the complete RTF specification, and some editors have extended it substantially. (For instance to support named Styles, which are not part of baseline RTF.) So while I prefer RTF, the Markdown side does have a point. Nothing is more portable than plain text.

1 Like
29

Docx files are kind of fun, although I’m not a Word user.

A docx file is a standard zip archive. If you unzip a docx you’ll find mostly plain text in the form of XML. It’s been a while since I peeked, but I think images are stored in their original binary form. I could be wrong.

My favorite word processor, Mellel, is similar. The inner workings of a Mellel document are far different than docx (a good thing!). Their native format is a zip file with the document specification in XML.

In either case, the plain ASCII text is easy enough to find. I once wrote a mail merger in Python for Mellel files. Start to finish, including my first look at the file structure, was about three hours.

Word is even easier, since there are utilities that will read and write the files.

Plain text, docx, Mellel, and RTF all meet my standard for future proofing. I can get the text even if the supporting software vanishes.

30

So you only use DT for your note-taking. Do you use any apps like iWriter Pro, iA Writer, etc. or only use the note-taking system provided through DT? thank you

1 Like
31

Hi Ja_acov
I use DT for note taking. Normally I use markdown as the preferred format. iAWriter and similar tools may be an important aid if you are talking about long notes (several “A4” pages). You can use them integrated in DT. So, they don’t compete; they are complementar.

For short notes DT’s markdown editor is enought (and quite good). There are a lot of costumization that you can do, if you want to adjust DTs notes to your own workflow, since defining keystrokes to a quick access to new notes, to costumizable css to have a pleasant and adjusted template to your needs. There is an excelent book about that from an author called Kouroush Dini intitled “taking smart notes with devonthink”. Allow me to recommend it to you if you haven’t already read it.

Although DT may be used for note taking there is so much more that you can do with it, as you can see by other answers.

I also use Obsidian for note taking because I need also to extend to Windows environment. However for other purposes other than take markdown notes, these two apps are quite different. So, they can be used in parallell to achieve different purposes. I tryed lots of other note taking systems and I always get back to my old, dear DT :wink:

1 Like
32

Thank you so much for your reply, this greatly helps me moving forward. Thanks again for sharing your Wisdom :blush:

33

For those who use LaTex but also enjoy Markdown, there is a new option available:

https://typst.app/

They say there starting point was frustration with LaTeX, but they also acknowledge it’s the most advanced and comprehensive document production environment. They must therefore be brave :slight_smile:

I guess it will be a few years before its possible to do a conversion of my LaTeX documents. In any case, I always like the enthusiasm in such projects and wish them success.

1 Like
34

Yes. There is no need for any other app. DT has everything you need, including things you cannot find in other apps (for instance, the new copy with source option and a flexible transclusion). After trying everything else, I realized that DT is the most powerful note-making available in the market, even though note-making is only one of the several things that can be done with DT.

5 Likes
35

Then DT I will use for note-taking. Thanks again for all your guidance & support!

36

Hmmm… Scrivener… I seem to remember it has a corkboard view in which each document’s synopsis appears…

Ok, a few minutes fiddling later. Now I can go to a document with an annotation and hit a hot key, then go to a markdown file and hit another hot key to transclude the annotation.

Scrivener corkboard/synopsis mode, more or less.

Here’s what I did.

Make an annotation template that has this for the first line:

[%recordName%](%recordLink%%digitalObjectIdentifier%)

Instead of rendering as “Parent document” the link will have the actual name of the parent document followed by “(Annotation)”. This is so your list of transclusions will have a title with each transcluded annotation with a link to directly edit the annotation.

Define a Keyboard Maestro macro. You want it to type three keystrokes: Control-Option-Command-O (open the annotation), Control-Option-Command-C (copy item link), and Command-W (close window).

That gets the link to the annotation on your clipboard.

Another Keyboard Maestro macro types “{{” and simulates the keystroke Option-Shift-Command-V (paste and match style, which pastes just the Devonthink url).

After that, the macro types “}}” followed by two return keys. That creates a transclusion with the item link.

No hellish regular expressions or BBEdit text factories like my last abominable idea.

Should I actually end up using this notion, I’ll probably use a second tab in DT. Or a second window, either would work. In one tab/window I’ll start a new markdown document for my synopses. The other tab/window will be sort of my shopping cart, where I browse for what I want to use next.

Click on a document with an annotation in the shopping cart tab/window and execute the first macro. I tied it to Option-Command-A, for getting the Annotation.

Click back to the other tab/window, where you’re building your list of annotations in a markdown file. Execute the second macro, which I tied to Option-Command-Y, as in either sYnopsis or “Y not?”

Repeat for each annotation you want to transclude.

4 Likes
37

Surely though if you are using Markdown you are still thinking about formatting rather than concentrating exclusively on your writing? Is MD in effect not about formatting instructions? Why not just plain text and nothing else? Or am I showing my ignorance?

3 Likes
38

Yea, @michaeldoran, you have it right. MD is indeed just formatting instructions and reminds me of Word Perfect and Wordstar from the 1980’s–yes, a little less complicated, of course, but similar concept. Dependant on Markdown viewers. That being said some writing/composing needs headings and formatting (technical topics and perhaps web pages) as part of the creation process and some other types (novels?) don’t. So there is a place for it, but it’s not a panacea and use it not because “everybody ought to do this as it’s cool”.

1 Like
39

Or just

[%documentName%](%documentLink%)

– which is what I use for this. You don’t need the double return after transclusion links; a single return is sufficient.

40

Markdown was originally for bloggers, as I understand, intended as shorthand for html. Instead of:

<h1>This is cool!</h1>, you just typed # This is cool! for the same effect.

The appeal for writers is in things like what the trendies call future proofing. What you wrote in Notepad on Windows is equally usable with BBEdit on a Mac or vim on Linux, albeit with some easily transliterated and somewhat ignorable line ending conventions. It’s another way to break your tie to Windows so you can move to a Mac where you should have been all along. :wink:

Links are where Markdown comes alive. Markdown rendering facilitates that kind of cross referencing.

For instance, I’ve just started researching an ugly dynamic in politics, which is a redundant way of saying I’m researching politics. Every news article I archive or fact I learn gets notes which are peppered with links to other notes. That helps me make sense of interrelated things and also helps Devonthink’s see also searches.

That also makes editing Markdown in DT’s internal editor the way to go, because of auto-completing links within a database of notes.

Drafts of what I write for real are done in a word processor, but that’s just me.

2 Likes