My writing tends to be reports, business proposals, outlines; I don’t write books, web blogs or scientific papers. I am a long-term user of MS Word and although it does to a certain extent “get in the way,” I have developed a standard document template with predefined styles, fonts, indents, lists etc that covers 99% of my needs in one single app. Document portability is not a huge issue for me and if I have to I can always export from Word in plain text or PDF if a formatted presentation is needed. I personally don’t understand how people cope with using half a dozen or more different apps to achieve their writing workflow - or perhaps I am just a septuagenarian dinosaur who did his first programming training 55 years ago!
Dinosaur? No, I’d say you’ve had long experience in finding solutions that fit your needs.
Linking is probably the one single thing that makes Markdown what I use for notes.
Thinking further, the only time I use Markdown for presentation is when I do things like write documentation in situ on a Linux box, then converting it to Word or PDF with pandoc for sharing with coworkers. I do that from time to time.
Mostly, Markdown is a minimalist organization tool in my uses, not a presentation environment. For me, it enhances what Devonthink does.
Actually, I do care about Markdown presentation in one other area. I’m a math dummy and I try to spend a little time every day banging my head against algebraic walls. My math notebook is a Devonthink database, using lots of Mathjax in Markdown notes. I like that because it’s quick enough I can jot a note down before I lose track of how some math works.
Welcome @michaeldoran
Surely though if you are using Markdown you are still thinking about formatting rather than concentrating exclusively on your writing?
Only in the same way as RTF, IMHO. It’s fast to get ideas down “on paper” but also allows for quick formatting as needed. I write a ton of Markdown daily and I use the rendered view for copying and sending rich text responses.
On the topic of formatting: The ability to make global style changes is a key reason I love the format. Sometimes, I will roll some CSS just to make things look a little prettier. As an artist, constantly staring at monospaced fonts in XML, logs, etc., .etc., custom styling gives me a little relief
I am going to be picky here. Markdown things like # for headings is concentrating on the document structure, Formatting is about how it looks (for me anyway). Like what colour your heading text is, font size etc.
Writing using markdown is about writing and structure. Preview with CSS etc is about formatting (appearance). You can disagree of course!
You are right of course in distinguishing between structuring and formatting. I need to be more precise in my choice of words when posting comments within a predominantly scientific community!
I use Joplin just about every day for quick notes in meetings etc. Open source, syncs easily from phone to computers. Any I want to keep longer I can manually export in markdown and import to Devonthink.
Our userbase is far more diverse than that
Have you ever looked into Obsidian or Logseq for notes, thoughts? Thank you
Is it a real concern to have text that will be [maybe] readable in 50 years and so use plain text or markdown in a non devonthink system ? RTF or RTFD in Devonthink [or just plain text files] is probably good enough for 90% of devonthink users to make notes, add photos-pdfs-urls–etc-other embeds and not have to worry about learning a markdown syntax. I have used obsidian, Joplin, and also markdown in devonthink and frankly they were just not worth the effort. Obsidian and Joplin do not have the power and elegance of devonthink and then one has another system to fool with. Devonthink is not perfect but the effort of working with yet another system is not worth it. I prefer to get work and thinking done in devonthink and suspect most devonthink users would concur. fiddling with Obsidian and Joplin etc. seems counter productive. Analogous to fiddling with and trying to find the perfect GTD system instead of just doing work.
Yes I use Logseq but Joplin is a much simpler vehicle and like the syncing across devices without fuss.
…as long as you don’t add HTML or CSS to the document as that ruins the whole idea.
Another thought on future proofing. It’s not a pressing concern as long as the future is a long time away.
But what if your word processor, through some turn of updates or (shudder) malware, refuses to run 30 minutes from now? Maybe a licensing vendor goes belly up and stops authenticating licenses.
I don’t write in any format I can’t read without the app. Even those who don’t have the inclination to tweeze formats benefit from either open or relatively transparent encoding.
Word, Excel, Scrivener, Nisus, Mellel, or just about anything based on RTF, Markdown, plain text, or XML can be peeled open with minimal effort.
Apple Pages and Numbers, maybe not so easy.
Apple’s formats are also just zipped XML, afaik
I think html should be in the list; I use formatted note for my notes
Apple Pages and Numbers, maybe not so easy.
A concern; but I still use these apps for many notes; I don’t have the Word/Excel apps
At least we don’t have to use WordStar any more!
Some suggestions as to workflow:
Keep it simple - use plain text or MD (pretty much the same thing)
it keeps files sizes down
avoids bloat - check on the file size of ‘hello world’ in a txt vs MS word doc
Remember that file formats change and some become obsolete
Writing in a program that requires a subscription may mean the you lose the ability to edit/update your documents if the subscription lapses or the company goes belly up.
Make sure that you can get your data out of a program/silo easily in a useful format (not pdf) - for future editing
You must have the data held locally and not only in the cloud (Notion)
Expect to move your data not only from one storage format to another over the years but also to different apps/programs
Keep track of your work - it’s so easy to misplace an important document somewhere in a plethora of storage solutions
The simple answer is to use DT - and backup your files
I use DT for note taking, but primarily for the research I’m doing, and I particularly appreciate that it can handle so many different filetypes. In terms of longevity, both rtf and pdf seem “universal” – multiple platforms and apps can handle them and they’ll probably last as long as I care to worry about it. I understand the importance of bringing files forward before an app is discontinued, (been there/done that), but it seems less of an issue today; most files can be converted to a newer version of an app, or one made in a different but similar app.
I started working on a computer over 40 years ago, and the first word processing was done just like Markdown is today (what’s old is new again). I had to type in instructions to specify a Heading, Sub-Heading, etc., and was very pleased when all that was put under the hood so I didn’t have to deal with it anymore, and since I don’t need anything converted to html, see no need to go back to it. I suffered through Word Perfect and Word, which have way too much stuff under the hood, and see no need to go back to them, either! Pages, Mellel, and Nisus have more than enough power and less gunk to get in the way.
But I work primarily in Scrivener, which was designed to stay out of the way so writers can write. While no formatting is required, it’s possible – I created a StyleSheet because I like the visual cues a formatted page gives me as I work, ( it’s quite clear that’s a heading up top). And the app offers lots of export options in “Compile”; see attached.
I’m sure there are people with specific needs that require having more control of things, but this works fine for me because I’m on a need-to-know diet – I’ll learn something new if and when I need it, and I’m very glad I took the time to learn how to use DT. I use it and rely on it every single day, and I’m sure that as long as the fine team at DT is around, they’ll keep improving it and updating it for all of us.
Wisdom!
In regards to note-taking; is it all done in DT or another app? Please let me know & thank you
This depends on the individual. Some people like to use an external Markdown application. Others are happy writing Markdown in DEVONthink To Go. I write Markdown 365 a year in DEVONthink and DEVONthink To Go.
I initially had reservations about using Markdown for note-taking. However, after integrating it into my daily workflow in Devonthink Pro, I’ve found it to be incredibly beneficial. My advice for enhancing this experience is to create a custom CSS stylesheet. Doing so will make the preview of your notes more visually appealing and personalized to your preferences. This small adjustment can significantly improve the usability and enjoyment of the Markdown feature in your note-taking process.