DT4 - “Read the Manual”

Presumably you get paid to take and handle questions from your students. You can handle them as you see best. Here, nobody but DEVONthink staff (of which there are only a very few and they have other primary jobs at DEVONtechnologies than to answer questions here) get any renumeration for time spent here. And one in particular, @BLUEFROG, is the principle author of the outstanding DEVONthink Manual and Help.

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Did you see my response and reasoning?

Yes, and I think it makes sense. Is there a way to link (here in an answer) to a section of a PDF? Because that could be something useful - just provide a link to not just the manual, but to a section in the manual. If it is possible to do so, which I don’t know.

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I mean, paid or unpaid, I think folks who are answering should have the same goal in mind - to be helpful, and not discouraging. I don’t see that this has anything to do with being paid. If you have time to write an unfriendly and discouraging answer then you probably also have time to write a friendly helpful one. If you really don’t have time, then maybe write neither? Just a thought. Anyway, here I am writing a discouraging and unfriendly answer. I’m sorry. I really do appreciate the efforts of everyone who does give good answers on this forum, especially @BLUEFROG, who does an exceptional job.

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No worries and no one has crossed any lines yet, which is good. Let me think a bit…

PS: Thanks for the encouragement :heart:

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Tamara, I was a user experience designer by training (and a teacher too). Yep, it it can be frustrating on both sides.

In part, on the user’s side, this reflects a diversity of cognitive styles. Some users have a hard time reading a manual, they might have for example be neurodiverse in terms of attention, have mild or more serious forms of dyslexia, etc, etc. And then often a user wants a very quick answer to something the user is focused here and now.

DEVONthink is far from a being a simple app. It is deep, allows a tremendous variety of use-styles. Ingesting, classifying, tagging, organizing, relating information, and on top of that AI. Not trivial. Add the ability to sync. A related app is Tinderbox, which is fantastic, but even harder to completely grasp.

These “protean” apps do deserve a decent amount of time to get used to, like playing a violin or chess, until you get decently proficient.

A good manual - and DEVONthink has a terrific one (kudos to Jim) is very very hard to do, and essential. Tinderbox, in comparison, is nearly unlearnable (not a criticism, I love it). How do you organize a manual? There are whole graduate programs teaching you this (e.g., Carnegie Mellon University). Do you focus on the elements of the app, on potential user tasks, or both? DO you go as far as including some “zebra” use cases?

It is very hard to create a manual for an app like this, and also very hard for a new user to grok it.
It is the nature of things.

There is of course some frustration on very pro people, when a fairly simple question - even if it seems like a gotcha in a user’s mind - is asked many many times.

I used to be slightly annoyed at one of the posters above, for insisting we should RTFM - and also search this forum - until I read some of the contributions he made, and I felt a bit embarassed, because they were tremendously useful, masterfully written, and so on. You will identify who I am talking about. So now I cherish his comments and tips.

And talking about this forum and searching, I find it to be excellent, much better than most fora(ums), and the people on average also much more tolerant (yes, the eventual RTFM).

This is a community where people have different temperaments and personalities - much like in our classrooms, right? - but they do collaborate a lot. It does require some finesse in terms of asking questions, on not sounding too haughty, or too critical, etc, etc. Again, classroom.

How to make a manual even better? It’s tough. I was in teams responsible for manuals for databases, data migration, security networks, but also several consumer products. It is NOT easy. There is no 1-2-3. I suspect AI might help in the future, but given the nature of AI, costly mistakes can and will always occur. So back to real people, and the forum. They might be a bit tired and grumpy sometimes, but they are great, and I have relied on them for almost 20 years.

And, don’t feel bad :slight_smile:

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I like this thread, thanks to everyone who is responding and contributing meaningfully and respectfully.

In part, on the user’s side, this reflects a diversity of cognitive styles

I FEEL the frustration @tamara6 expresses.

Yes, DTP is an incredible application. I have been a user for many years now, and still learn things. Reading the very well thought-out manual is more than necessary, several times. But, I haven’t done that. Probably never will. One of the main reasons: Time vs Memory vs Usage. One of the main reasons for not reading the whole manual several times is that I cannot do this. Why? Because I use many apps that have vast manuals, eg FCPX, Motion, LogicPro, and all it’s plugins. Which one must I memorize, only to forget the salient point when it arises 6 months or a year down the road?

So here, for me, lies the dilemma. I don’t expect the experts, who dig into the intricacies of the marvellous beast that DTP is daily. I USE DTP daily. But I want it to “just work”. And when I ask a question, it would be great to have an easy way to be answered/pointed at the answer directly. If that frustrates the purists, perhaps have a flag that says: UNEXPERT SHORTIMER QUESTION. Then the big-brained guys can avoid answering, but helpful folks, like @tamara6 can respond and assist meaningfully.

It goes without saying that (almost?) everyone here wants to help out. There are many ways to help out. Many ways to use the protean application.

I get that this is not eg Obsidian, where the design makes it so much easier to outsource help, even to lower denominators, like myself. :rofl: But I want voices like @tamara6 to be heard and experience meaningful change too.

Here’s my vote for making contributions by non-expert users easier and lowering the friction co-efficient.

And, of course, thanks to everyone who works so hard (here’s looking at you, @BLUEFROG , but not only you), to make this app the marvel it is.

And now I will shut up again.

Best

Steve