According to manual DEVONthinkPro can import and export OmniOutliner files directly. However, in my brief experience this capability is very imperfect. The export to OmniOutliner command exports to version 2 of OmniOutliner, whereas the current version is 3.6.1. The import command does not seem to work at all for OmniOutliner version 3.6.1 - the filename is not highlighted as accessible and indeed is not readable - I no longer have any version 2 files to test. I use both programs regularly and it would be very nice to have a functional direct interchange as listed in guide.
Yes, that would be nice, but isnāt currently possible with OO3.
But if you have OO3 documents that you would like to be able to search and analyze in your database, you can āprintā them as PDF into your database from OmniOutliner.
While viewing your document, press Command-P to invoke the Print panel. Click on the PDF button and select āSave to DEVONthink Pro.scptā.
Bill,
Thanks for the clarification about printing to PDF, that helps.
However, why canāt DTP handle Outliner 3 documents? After all, itās been out for a long time now. I use Outliner all the time, and before I bought DTP I saw that it could import/export Outliner documents. That was a big selling point for me!
If Outliner 3 had only been out 1 month, then Iād completely understand the situation. But, as you stated it, it makes the situation much more ambiguous. Is DTP going to support Outliner 3 documents in the near future? Has it āgiven upā on this capability?
It would sure be nice to know, since I use Outliner more than I use a word processor.
- Mathew
Thereās really a āTower of Babelā out there ā almost every application has its own file format.
DEVONtechnologies does hope to capture data and at least partially render more file formats in the future. There are some avenues that look promising.
But itās far from a trivial problem. We donāt have the resources to reverse engineer everyoneās file format and rendering code. Even Appleās own Pages files are a proprietary format.
Iāve been giving kudos to the developers of Papyrus 12. They have added a hybrid PDF file format for their Mac and Windows versions. Although such files can only be fully edited by Papyrus 12 owners, the files are readable on any platform, as they are PDF files. I had a recent project that produced dozens of PDf files that went through many changes in response to reviews and suggestions. I bought Papyrus, because I can work with only one file instead of an original and a PDF version. So my project PDFs are exactly rendered in my DT Pro database, but can be opened in Papyrus and saved in the database, with all changes visible in the database. Another big advantage: I didnāt want to get stuck with perpetual management of revisions to those files. The teams that use them can do their own revisions in the future, whether they use Macs or Windows computers.
I think the problem here was the claim that DT could handle OOP docs, but it canāt.
Iāve just wasted a fair amount of time trying to get DTP to import an OO3 file, under the illusion created by the Help pages. These really shouldnāt claim that the app can do something it canāt (apart from anything else this must create a really bad impression for those who are new to the app). Surely it canāt be that hard to edit the Help pages to keep them up to date and save bewildered users having to go to the forums for an explanation the pages are there to provide.
Otherwise, best and seasonās greetings to all at DEVON.
Hi, beelers and mcoad.
The Help documentation about file types is correct. See DT Pro/DTPO Help > DEVONthink Pro Help. Hereās an excerpt:
āDEVONthink Pro Office is able to handle outliner files created by OmniOutliner and other applications in both OmniOutliner format and OPML (Outlining Processor Markup Language). When importing such files, DEVONthink Pro Office recreates a groups hierarchy; when exporting, it generates one OmniOutliner/OPML file out of multiple groups and documents.ā
If you check the user documentation for recognized file types, .oo3 is not among them, but .outliner is.
A number of applications continue to recognize the older Outliner file type (.outliner) and there are many of those files āout thereā, still in use. DT Pro/DTPO can import them.
OmniGroup changed the file type to .oo3 in the recent version of OmniOutliner. That file type is not documented as compatible with DT Pro/DTPO. DEVONtechnologies hopes to recognize .OO3 files in the future.
Note that DT Pro/DTPO can export the older OmniOutliner file type using File > Export > as OmniOutliner document. Such exported files are recognized by OmniOutliner 3.
Note also that OmniOutliner 3 can export as OPML (Outlining Processor Markup Language) and that format is recognized by DT Pro/DTPO.
The older OmniOutliner file type has been around for years. OmniGroup changed the file type to .OO3 without changing the name of the application, which does make for a somewhat confusing situation. The change is not merely in the file extension; itās actually a different file type.
There are workarounds. You can, for example, export an RTF file from the database as a .outliner file, or as a .opml file, and both formats can be imported as .OO3 files in OmniOutliner 3. Likewise, OmniOutliner 3 can export as a .opml file and that is recognized by DT Pro/DTPO.
And of course a .oo3 file can be opened in OmniOutliner 3 and āprintedā to a DT Pro/DTPO database as a PDF document, preserving the appearance of the .oo3 file. To do this, in OmniOutliner 3 press Command-P. When the Print panel appears, click on the PDF button and select āSave to DEVONthink Pro.scptā, then choose the group location to which the PDF is to be sent.
Think of the MS Word file change in Office 2007. There is a new version of Windows Word that saves Word documents in a new file format thatās not recognized by the Mac versions of Office. Although Microsoft claims the new file format is āopenā, it will likely be months before Mac users will be able to read the new Word document file type. If we receive such a Word file as an email attachment, our only recourse will be to ask the sender to please re-save the file in the older file format. Fortunately, Apple participates on a āstandardā group concerning the new MS Office file types, and we can expect that when Leopard is released we can read (at least) the text of the new Word file type.
Is the confusion perhaps because OmniOutliner 3 shipped well over a year ago, at which point OmniOutliner 2 because no longer the ārealā OmniOutliner. When people read that DEVONthink can support OmniOutliner files, they expect it to mean files created by, well, OmniOutliner, not a previous, no-longer-selling version of OmniOutliner.
I think DEVONthink should actually strike anything about support of OmniOutliner until they can support an OmniOutliner file that can be used natively by the currently shipping OmniOutliner.
It is different with MS Word. Since any Mac version of Word still uses the old file format thereās no confusion (or if there is confusion, it is part of a platform issue, not specific to DEVON). OmniOutliner is different because no one still uses OmniOutliner 2 files.
Hi, terceiro. Point taken. But Iām hopeful that it will become moot.
You might be surprised at how many people still have hundreds of the older files around, however.
So far Iāve been sent as email attachments two MS Word 2007 files. 
Thatās a problem not only for Macs but for the many thousands of Windows Word users who havenāt downloaded (and are not aware of) a translation routine.
Progress ā itās wonderful!
With all due respect, instead of dancing around the issue in the forum couldnāt the documentation simply be updated to be clear. Other posts in the forum have requested clearer documentation or farming it out to the Take Control folks.
An application with such a learning curve as DTP(O) and the rest of your suite of applications needs dedicated documentation from someone who knows the software inside and out AND can write clear docs. Something with a bit of whimsy to engage the reader. I point again to āThe Nisus Wayā as a great piece of engaging and informative documentation.
Whimsy? OK.
Iām saying make it fun. Learning a new system can, despite some arguments, be a fun thing. Itās not all work. It ends up being work in the end, but it doesnāt have to be work learning how to do it.
Why should the user have to work so hard and search forums and scour the web and scrutinize documentation just to figure out how something works?
So, yes, some whimsy would be nice.
Sure, Iād go for whimsy! But as the above poster indicated, the most important thing is to have coherent and clear and accurate information. The āOutliner issueā is one example of pretty obtuse (at best) to just downright misleading information.
Hereās what it says in the latest manual (posted yesterday) regarding Outliner:
āDEVONthink Pro Office is able to handle outliner files created by
OmniOutliner and other applications in both OmniOutliner format and
OPML (Outlining Processor Markup Language). When importing such
files, DEVONthink Pro Office recreates a groups hierarchy; when
exporting, it generates one OmniOutliner/OPML file out of multiple
groups and documents.
ā¢ Extensions: .outliner, .opmlā
Now this statement is probably true, but for the average person itās also misleading. If DTPO can āhandleā OmniOutliner documents then Iād infer that means version 3 (out for a long time now). Even if I magically learned (through the Forums) that it only works with version 2 outliner documents, then the statement still doesnāt conform with a regular personās understanding.
When I import a Outliner 2 document I get something that looks like HTML or CSS. While āinfoā has been imported, I canāt use it! More importantly, it doesnāt conform to my inuitive reading that DTPO will bring in an Outliner document in a similar manner as an RTF or a PDF.
When I import an OPML file, then I get something completely different again: each item is made into a separate entry/file within DTPO. This is an interesting result, perhaps even very usable under certaiin conditions, but itās certainly not what I was expecting given the documentation.
Itās very true that the manual says DTPO ārecreates a groups hierarchyā, but that means diddly squat to me (and Iād guess several others). What Iām expectiing to be recreated is the document: just like an RTF or a PDF.
Donāt get me wrong, I can do workarounds with all of this (and a few have been mentioned earlier in this post). Whatās frustrating for someone who is trusting the documentation to be accurate is that it essentially leads you down a path that ends up wasting a lot of your time (at best).
Like someone said before, either eliminate the Outliner stuff from the manual, or expand on it and tell us what it really does and why that might be useful to the average user.
Whimsy?
āIt was then that our intrepid user discovered that .oo3 files were not compatible with DTP, and all became quiet. Somewhere, in the distance, a dog howled.ā
Whimsy: the trait of acting unpredictably and more from whim or caprice than from reason or judgment
Again, itās not an exact science. Just make the docs more fun. Thatās what I was getting at. It doesnāt, and shouldnāt, have to be a circus but it doesnāt, and shouldnāt, have to be a chore either.
Well, we had a manual (long ago) that was way more fun. People were upset because it was not exact enough. We dumped it and went for a documentation. Hard to satisfy everyone. But, we basically agree. We may have something in the future.
BTW: Have you had a look at the DEVONacademy?
BTW2: Iāve changed this sentence in the docs for more clarity.
I think changing the line in the docs was all anyone was asking for in this thread (other than outright support of oo3 files, which I understand is a technological hurdle).
The documentation could use some help though. Iāve read it and it reads like a 1970s high school chemistry book. All the information is there, but itās kind of hard to sort out.
I would love to help with it, but I am still learning the program myself. I use it daily, but I still havenāt truly merged it into my workflow. The main obstacle for me is saving rich text pages in DTP. I surf with Camino, which doesnāt carry rich text over to DTP (another technological hurdle I understand). To save a page Iām having to open it in another browser (usually DA) to handle the text the way I want.
I could just surf with DA, but itās not quite as mature as the other browsers on the market.
On that note, Iām excited that the Firefox alpha out there right now has Cocoa elements. I long for the day when I can access all that Mozilla goodness and FF extensions all rolled into a ball of code that fits right into Mac OS X and DTP.
OK, that turned into a ramble, but I think I got the important ideas across 
This thread has been going on awhile, perhaps all questions are answered and issues resolved. But I thought I should report that in my experience, OmniOutliner 5.8.4 & DEVONthink 3.7.2 work together flawlessly. Itās a big help for my kind of research/writing work.
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