FR: Tabular numerals in lists, sidebars, inspectors, etc

It’s my time in the publishing industry which makes me very sad when I see columns of proportionally-spaced numerals:

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This is not an issue restricted to DEVONthink, but it’s certainly one of the apps I’m looking at at the moment with a lot of numbers in tables.

Even Mail does it:

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Is it possible to set the lists, sidebars and inspectors fonts to use “tabular” numerals (easiest to show the differences):

The fonts would need to support tabular numbers, but I think, for example, Helvetica as supplied by Apple will support it.

Thanks for your consideration.

Sean

There are hidden preferences to use monospaced fonts in the sidebar and/or item list, this might be a good alternative. See Help > Hidden Preferences

Thanks for the pointer, but I like proportional fonts for text, generally :slight_smile:

It’s just a typographic norm which is being left by the wayside (for many years, Mac fonts defaulted to tabular numerals pretty well everywhere).

Sean

You could set your font preferences to those fonts that provide equal-width numerals. Probably a lot faster and more robust than (waiting for) DT to use a different font for numeric columns – how would it even know that in all cases? See the screenshot below

Should DT use a proportional font for "Gestern, " and then switch to equal-width numerals?

Sean, I hear you - but these days are over… now we have not only proportional numerals (unless we use a monospaced font just by itself), but also the horrendous spacing for “1”.

From a usability point of view, lining numerals vertically is much better for visual scanning and detecting patterns. Alas, maybe it’s all pointing in the direction of AI doing it for us (half-joking).

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Perhaps it is possible to find a variable font with a font-variant-numeric: monospaced on fonts.google? But I have no idea if macOS works with this kind of thing.

(Scroll down to find recent, more relevant posts).

Currently, Merryweather, Noto Serif, Noto Serif Display, Playfair, and Roboto Serif support this feature (these are the serif fonts; there are more non-serif ones).
You could try to download the font with the required setting. Or just download it as it is and then find/use a tool that does “the right thing”. See for example GitHub - zachleat/glyphhanger: Your web font utility belt. It can subset web fonts. It can find unicode-ranges for you automatically. It makes julienne fries.

Ok, the point is, proportional numerals are a ligature/attribute of font files which can be specified programmatically at the time of use

So it’s not about changing fonts for text vs numerals, its specifying a font attribute (not unlike bold, or italic) on a font when it’s used in a table.

Here’s Excel, with Helvetica, doing it right:

So I’m certainly not asking DT to do anything except, when specifying font attributes like font and size, to specify tabular numerals (which I believe if aren’t available won’t be shown).

As @uimike says, it’s a usability benefit when listing tabular data.

Sean

Here we go…

It’s a shame Apple doesn’t use this more.

Sean

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Easy to do with Excel, which by definition has only tabular data. In DT, they’d have to introduce code that checks the context where the strings are displayed. I’m not saying that it is impossible, but that probably requires a lot of code changes. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

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Julienne fries most definitely

That’s a method of the SwiftUI framework, and I have no idea if DT is using that already.

No, they do not have to do that.

What I’m asking, is that for tables, sidebars and inspectors, in those views they specify monospacedDigit(), and if it’s available for the font for those elements, it will show it. If a user chooses a font for which it’s not available, it won’t show it.

I’m not asking it for dialog boxes, previews, editing windows, etc.

There are apparently equivalents for SwiftUI, UIKit and AppKit – Monospace Digits

UPDATE: UIKit example there is only for system fonts. I know this has been available before as standard in fonts available in the OS, but I can’t say when it changed. I’m continuing to research.

I’d rather we wait to hear from the developers if that method is available in whatever framework they do use, rather than having users conjecture on whether it is possible or not, or proclaiming how they’d “have” to do it.

Sean

Are you telling me to shut up, then? Fine.

Looks like it’s more broadly available (Objective-C) using this:

Some examples of use:

That also happens to indicates this change in default behaviours was announced at WWDC 2015

We’ve definitely seen the request now and it’s noted but there are no plans anytime soon to change this as we don’t revise our internal roadmap every day.

I certainly wouldn’t expect you to!

It’s just a request based on what appears to be an available attribute which could be set for text views, but I totally get you have a roadmap, and that you don’t down tools on that for every requested feature and that you have other products you’re working on, too! I’m looking forward to DTTG4 before I’d expect work to be done on this.

I honestly love your work (and that of the rest of the developers!), which I think should be clear from my other posts as well as this explicit statement here.

Sean

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Thanks for the nice feedback, really appreciated.

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