My UI suggestions

[drspk]

@keene

I would urge DTP developers to look at Gridiron Software’s innovative Flow application as a possible direction to go into for visualizing connections for data.

I have to disagree with Keene here; the Flow interface is not OS X compliant (it seems all too close to the interface apocalypse that is Adobe CS4). It’s internally coherent (which cannot be said 100% about DTP) but it is not a Mac-like user experience (among other issues Flow has). Indeed, it looks like an Adobe Air-based app. Not a fan.

[KP1]

@radii0

What I think is odd in DTP 2 UI and interface design is that there are two “sidebars”, one is the proper source bar (blue background), and the other is the sidebar of the three panel view. Three panes “view” in “widescreen” mode , plus one source bar, plus the “see also” panel plus the pagination panel of the PDF, makes one interface consisting of 6 vertical panes!. I really think that the complexity of this application required more creativity and design decisions, other than adding shortcuts to hide or show panels.

I get what you’re saying here, I’m glad my screen is wide or I’d scrolling back and forth to see everything, but what alternative do you suggest?

Personally, I’d like to see iTunes & iPhoto behave more like DT, even if it meant a second sidebar, so I could have more than one library open at the same time and easily navigate between them, instead of using a hack like iPhoto Library Manager or opening/closing the application every time I wanted to switch between libraries.

[radii0]

@KP

I get what you’re saying here, I’m glad my screen is wide or I’d scrolling back and forth to see everything, but what alternative do you suggest?.

I would suggest a more refined design, which I think it requires a total overhaul of the hole user interface. I thought that was going happen for the v2, when developers announced they were working on it and it took time to release the beta (oh little dreamer…). But the reality, with all respect and admiration for the developers, is that the user interface is still the same, plus new icons and a new sidebar. So now I think we have to adapt to what they offer.

[sjk]

@hauntedtapedeck

@drspk

The DTP interface is certainly coherent, but it lacks the elegance which so regularly produces productivity boosts on the Mac.

I think this statement captures very well my overall feelings. DTP is incredibly powerful and useful, but it lacks elegance, and this does impact on its usability.

I mostly agree, except the usability isn’t always coherent to me because of long-standing focus/navigation issues.

Whether or not it sparks further discussion here’s something I originally posted in the closed beta forum (last December, after pb1 was released) that I’ve wanted to re-post publicly for awhile:

@sjk

Immediately after opening one of my databases (with a Three Panes window) the item count in the top-left corner is “71 items, 0 selected”, corresponding to the number of groups in the left pane. Is there any way to get the non-group item count without selecting them all in the top pane? When I do that I see “127 items, 127 selected”, as expected. And after a Deselect All (Shift-Command-A) it changes to “…, 0 selected”, implying the focus is still in the top pane even though I can’t otherwise tell – the old “focus limbo” problem that lurks around every corner in the UI.

Now, relaunch and immediately type Option-Tab. No change in item count, yet focus has invisibly switched to the top pane; a down-arrow will select the first item. Deselect All, Option-Tab, and another invisible focus switch to the left pane occurs, yet the item count still displays “127 items …” as it did after deselecting all.

That demonstrates these problems:

• The item count doesn’t necessary reflect the current focus
• The item count can’t be used as a visual cue to locate focus

… while adding to these general long-standing UI problems:

• It’s too easy to get lost
• It’s too hard to accurately navigate using the keyboard

I’ll save mouse usage considerations for another time.

It’s an ongoing struggle… no, battle to re-orient myself after focus is switched, either explicitly or automatically, between different UI elements. The “where am I?” question (and its “how can I efficiently get to where I want?” corollary) abnormally preoccupies my DTP usage, making it impossible to achieve a level of comfortable interaction that’s possible with other apps (most which admittedly aren’t as complex).

I’d hoped these focus/navigation problems would be addressed in v2, yet so far they seem at least as bad as in v1. An often heavily interactive and used app like DTP deserves more serious attention to usability details than it seems to be getting. How it feels and behaves is very important to me.

I like DTP a lot (always have) but would sure appreciate it being more fun to use, with less second-guessing how it’s going to respond (or not) to certain actions.

No difference (AFAICT) in pb3.

And one more:

Part of the confusion is the View/Edit Pane and Document windows can easily contain content that doesn’t associate with any database document, e.g. during HTML browsing, or a different db document, e.g. during WikiLink browsing (which I don’t use). How Reveal, etc. will behave in that context is hard to predict. And if Reveal does switch the selection/focus to the original in a document list the other content in the view/edit pane or document window might remain visible or revert to the original content. That seems at least partly dependent on the original document type; if it’s HTML the content is retained; if it’s RTF(D) the content is reverted. Here’s the former:

The selected document now conveys information that doesn’t match the view pane content.

That schizophrenic behavior can be nerve wracking while trying to smoothly navigate and view different documents and types if you want to click links in the content along the way. Using Go > Forward/Back can complicate things even further. And the interaction with tabs, which I’ve barely tried. My brain explodes.

Two general suggestions, assuming “ambiguous contexts” will continue to exist in DEVONthink:

• The UI could make it more obvious when you’ve stumbled into an ambiguous context
• After stumbling into an ambiguous context it could be easier to determine how certain actions will behave and fix or restrict those that don’t make sense

[AsafKeller]

@sjk

I’d hoped these focus/navigation problems would be addressed in v2, yet so far they seem at least as bad as in v1. An often heavily interactive and used app like DTP deserves more serious attention to usability details than it seems to be getting.

Well put. That accurately sums my view of the application: immensely powerful with lots of potential, but a frustrating UI that causes me to waste a lot of time, and to continually seek alternative software. The focus issues that sjk nicely summarized, the continual reliance on kludges and scripts to accomplish what should be an integral part of the application, the regression in some key features (such as Sheets, fuzzy logic) are frustrating and unfortunate.

[JRPars]

I’m not all that bothered by the UI in 2.0 and I use DTPO extensively now that I’ve completely switched from Together. Do I like aspects of the Together UI better? Yes. Do I like the functionality of DTPO better? Yes. Are some features slower to access in DTPO? Yes. Do I miss the few seconds in the day? No.

I would be happy with just a couple of changes. Incorporate the the two sidebars into one. Make it blue like other Mac apps. I don’t foresee any great confusion telling the global from the database that’s open as long as they aren’t intermingled…and I frequently have 3-4 db open.

Get rid of the drawers on the right and incorporate the function into the center UI. Click on see also and a sidebar appears within the window on the right side. Click on red button and it disappears or just drag it closed. Same thing with words. They don’t appear at the same time as it is so there’s no conflict. Developers can leave info and keywords as pop windows if they like.

I personally would like the see also, words, etc. located within a border along the bottom of the main window rather than in the middle bar which I find to be a pain, but I can live without it.

[Jweber]

Any update on labeling? Is there going to be some implementation of a more distinct visual cue of an assigned label than just an icon being colorized?