Hey there,
I just got my hands on DevonThink a couple days ago. I would like to use it for keep track of my data mess. So far I’m enjoying all the categorizing and sorting.
I don’t quite understand how devonthink stores or does not store my files and whether the files are still backed up.
So here are couple questions:
Does Devonthink create a copy of all files, if I choose to Import and not just index them? Doesn’t this pretty much take up double space for every file?
Are my files and folders being updated with all new additions and changes? If not, how do I set it up?
Why can’t I set the main database folder to be in my iCloud? I’m afraid of losing my data at some point, if it’s not being backed up properly. I trust my iCloud tho.
My main goal:
I got 3 databases personal, study and work. My iCloud also has 3 folders referencing these 3 topics with each folders and files in it. I want to keep everything in devonthink and in my iCloud stored files synced. So if there’s a change in one of them, it also changes for the other. For example updating content in textfiles, adding new files & folders or deleting or moving files. So devonthink should mirror the files I got in my folders.
Did you have a look at the user manual? Or perhaps searched the forum to see whether your questions are answered there or here?
What do you mean? Which additions? Which changes? How do you set what up?
That’s how DT is designed. I can’t answer why, but I know that the question has been asked and answered here often before, so I possibly couldn’t add to that. Please use the search function in the forum.
Then use a proper backup strategy: TimeMachine, a second local backup, and a remote one. Also discussed many, many times here, and all over the net. Do not trust your data to a single backup – neither iCloud, nor TimeMachine, nor your NAS. At least not if you are intent on keeping it.
Why? And if you do, then why do you import instead of index? STOP doing that! Before you completely grasp the differences between the two approaches and the pitfalls of indexing. The manual explains it all, and the forum (again!) is full with troubleshooting exercises.
Technically, there’s no problem in indexing cloud content. Practically, you should stop iCloud from removing content from your disk, though. Or rather: Don’t index. Unless you can’t help it. Which I don’t see.
@chrillek 's advice is the gold standard on the topic.
One addition from what I’ve observed here for decades: never jump whole-hog into DEVONthink. “Oh cool, I’ll put everything into DEVONthink now” is not a strategy. It’s the doorway to chaos.
First, create a database around a purpose – a research project, or a household project, or a set of folders you want to make sense of, or a set of notes – whatever. Do that for a few months – while simultaneously exploring the feature set, the tutorials, the manual, and getting comfortable. And then, you should know how and where you want to expand usage. Or, maybe you’ll toss the app in the trash. Take your time in any case.
With that I mean an update version of a document for a example or updated files or added files in folders. How do I make sure DevonThink is also updating the contenst of existing files, but also adding newly added files to it’s database?
Same reason as above. I want to maintain the 2 systems synced, so everything in the dt database and my local or cloud stored files is actually the same, no older versions of documents and so missing files that stil show up in some database or vice versa. I wouldn’t have this issue, if the database could be stored in icloud or dropbox by itself. Then everything would be synced and backed up.
I get that, but in my case there’s not many resources on youtube for example. The software is quite complex I guess and I can handle that, but I just need a base understanding of what happens to files, where they go, if there backed up and all that in order to keep my data safe and organized.
There’s just things like that nobody really understands. And yes, I’m been searching for this on this forum and reddit. So how do I backup my stuff to icloud? I enabled the icloud cloudkit sync already, but does it only backup the structure from the database or does it included the files themselves? If so, does it store everything twice, when I still do the files in a folder in my icloud anyways?
Don’t. Just don’t. Follow @korm’s advice and start small. Don’t try to outwit iCloud nor DT.
How is that related to anything?
Please tell us what you want to achieve, and not in technical terms. But what documents do you want to store in DT? What do you do with them, what do you need them for? Then we can perhaps give you advice on how to approach that.
But just insisting that things have to be in “the cloud” without giving any reason makes no sense. And even if your database where in “the cloud”, you’d still have to backup it. Elsewhere.
There should only be one version of your file
either stored within a Devonthink database (imported)
or stored within an OS folder (indexed)
edit: I just tried importing a fle using File>Import>Files and Folders
Devonthink created a copy
After importing, I had to manually delete the file from the OS
Please do not rely on Reddit or YouTube. Rely on the DEVONthink Manual and the free ebook Take Control of DEVONthink, both available on DEVONtechnologies website. Also search this forum and read this forum. But look at the former first.
Again, do not rely on Reddit or YouTube videos until you can get more discerning about DEVONthink.
Sync is not backup. The former makes sure that the content on all machines is always the same (“synchronized”). The latter saves snapshots at your data to location(s) of your choice. Important difference: If you delete a file, it will be deleted from all devices you sync with. It will not be deleted from older backups. So, you can restore something from a backup, but you can’t from sync.
Backup strategies are not related to DT. If you think your data is important, you must back it up anyway. Set up a strategy for that. Make sure it includes your DT databases. Verify that you can restore your data, too. If you’ve done that, you can probably stop worrying about backup.
Sync, as I said, is another thing altogether. You’d only need to think about that, if you want to use several devices with your DT databases, say a desktop and a laptop machine or iPhone/iPad etc. With one machine, no need to sync.
In addition to @chrillek’s sage advice (and yes, sync is NOT backup, and storing backups on internet sync services outside of DEVONthink syncing is not reliable or prudent IMHO),
Read in the DEVONthink Manual the section I recall is named “A Word about Backups”. And lots of posts here on good backup designs. 3-2-1 method the best.
I wouldn’t have this issue, if the database could be stored in icloud or dropbox by itself. Then everything would be synced and backed up.
That is technically infeasable and not data-safe so putting your databases in the cloud is explicitly prohibited.
Also, don’t believe the Myth of Network Persistence. Your connection isn’t always up, servers are not always reachable or responsive, the intervening hops on networks often need rerouting for one reason or another, etc. In those cases, how do you get your data when it’s only stored in the cloud?
The software is quite complex I guess and I can handle that, but I just need a base understanding of what happens to files, where they go, if there backed up and all that in order to keep my data safe and organized.
It has been said many, many times: If you can use the Finder, you can use DEVONthink. It is really that simple, though it can be used in much more complex ways than the Finder.
And all this has been documented in the built-in Help and manual, as well as Help > Tutorials, and our blog.
It is difficult to figure out where to start. Your terminolgy is confused, and/or it seems your mental model of what is going on has some fundtamental flaws – broader than just related to DEVONthink. Some of it has already been adressed before I got to reply (backups and cloud services).
Like people often do—in all of life, not just with DEVONthink—you come at this with some underlying assumptions that you take for granted. Since you don’t spell them out, it is difficult to know what they are. This makes communication very muddy. Effective communication has to start somewhere else.
Because of that, what Chrillek says here is sage advice:
I also don’t get why you don’t start by looking in the manual. I’m not the type of person who always read the manual for everything… But some people seem to do everything to avoid it, and I just don’t understand. Prior bad experiences? (Or laziness? I try to be charitable, though )
Some manuals are pretty bad, that’s true. Luckily, DEVONthink has a fantastic manual! It is very approachable, and it would clear up many things for you. You don’t have to read it all in one go, but at least read the Getting Started chapter.
(Edit: I intended to reply to the thread, not @rmschne. I can’t figure out how to change it and don’t have more time right now.)
I get this point, but first you can encrypt the databases and second I probably had more hard drives and computer dying on me and never experienced my icloud not working.
That’s the main point for me. From my experience it’s more reliable than most personal hardware solutions. But that’s just my experience and opinion
But you’d still rely on an unknown number of intermediaries. Have the Telekom box in your street to up in flames, a caterpillar cut the cable next top your house, a router in the backbone go haywire… Or just be in a poor country with even poorer internet connectivity or with a government that doesn’t like Apple and blocks iCloud.
All these things can happen and would leave you without access to your data. Yes, your local disk can fail as well. But then you get a new one and restore your backup on it.
You can’t use DT without a computer. But you can use it without the cloud.
Maybe I should answer this first.
So as written in my message opening this thread, for now I got 3 databases: personal, work, study.
Personal had groups for important documents like contracts, invoices, legal papers… stuff like that, also less important, but still personal stuff.
Work got my projects for work in different groups per project.
Study got all my different lessons, exams, so on in different groups.
All of these databases got a pretty much similar folder structure in my icloud. So this holds all my files. For everyone hating on my love for using icloud… this could also be on an external drive or whatever.
Anyways, when changing a file in either devonthink or just my finder, the file doesn’t properly get update in the other one. But I would like to have everything setup the same at all times.
So if I add new documents to my study folder (via finder for example), I should update and add this file to the dt database. Some goes if I delete a file. Devonthink still has it in the database. Some goes if I change text in a document. I want the updated version in dethonthink. And this doesn’t work properly with my current setup.
Sorry for any misunderstandings so far, I’m really thankful for any help.
But icloud has my documents folder synced everytime. So even if I work without internet connection for a week, the folder still remains locally and I can still put new stuff into it, that should appear in devonthink.
New time I connect to the network iCloud would sync it. What’s the problem here?
I not working fully cloud based, I’m just using it to back up and maybe access it from other devices.
So you want to keep working in iCloud Drive but also mirror into a DEVONthink database? Given that DEVONthink supports duplicates and there is no relationship between imported files and the files in the Finder, you imagining a very inefficient workflow.
That being said, it is possible to index Finder folders, essentially creating links to Finder items in a database. But before you leap up all starry-eyed indexing is not something you should do casually. Read and understand the In & Out > Importing & Indexing section of the Help or manual. And do not think you should just index your home folder. No matter whether importing or indexing, you should be judicious in what you put in your databases. There’s no good reason to add excessive noise to things you need to manage, work with, or find.
Thank You, that helped! I’m getting there, slowly.
Yes exactly, that’s my main point. I’m not a data scientist. I’m pretty much just a stundent. I just got lots of documents (different formats), pdfs with couple hundred pages and all on different or same topics.
Priority is keeping my stuff safe, so everything is backed up and in reach from multiple devices.
Devonthink is my tool of choice for keep everything organized, finding stuff and also ocr. Maybe you understand my case
)
It is very approachable, and it would clear up many things for you. You don’t have to read it all in one go, but at least read the Getting Started chapter.