Trying to figure out my problems of using DTTG

[jem]

This is something I’ve wanted to write for a couple of years, but since I haven’t been able to clearly express my thoughts, I’ve refrained from writing anything. I’m still not able to express clearly what I mean, but today I’m going to write about it

I really like that I’m able to access my DT databases from my iPhone (rarely) and my iPad (much more common). But I’ve noticed that I’m not using DT as a note database in my day to day life, instead I’ve played around with Bear, Drafts, Notes, etc. Unfortunately this means that I have notes in different apps and I spend too much time searching for notes. Ideally I would like to use DT for everything (not a problem on my Mac) and let DT be my “true source” for notes/info.
Using my phone I usually want to enter a sentence or a few words, on my iPad I usually tend to write a bit more using the keyword but I still have this problem with small pieces of info (could be text, images, urls, etc)

So I’ve been trying to figure out why I don’t default to DTTG, and - here comes the fuzzy part - I think it’s due to that I experience DTTG as “heavy”, i.e. it feels like a lot of work to open it and enter a quick note. I’m not sure why, but I think it’s due to navigation and the available options for new data. If I want to enter a quick note I just want to quickly do that, for example in Bear I could just open Bear, paste in the info, and close Bear. In DTTG, I need to decide where it should go, create a the note, select which type of item it is, and then paste it in. For me, using the phone/ipad, this is too much work, probably because I’m doing something else at the same time, for example out and about, in a meeting, etc while on the Mac I’m usually in my office working.

So, what do I want to say? Well, basically that the feeling of “heavyness” makes me use DTTG less that I would like to do. I would be perfectly happy if someone of you would pat me on my head and say “poor guy, you’re doing things in the wrong way. Let me show you the way to do it”.

I think my different experiences of DT on the Mac and on mobile are caused by my different ways of thinking about DT on these platforms. On my Mac it’s the place where I organize all info/documents related to my work, my work database is structures with an hierarcical folder structure, it’s easy to enter documents at the right place or just drop them in the inbox for later organization. On mobile, I’m mostly looking things up (still fairly easy because of the way I’ve structured my database) but my main use here would be to store small snippets of info for later, I don’t want to organize them, select what type of info it is, etc. I just want to store, sync and later organize on my Mac. I’ve considered creating a few shortcuts to make things easier, but finding & launching the shortcut also takes time (especially if I would need multiple shortcuts).

OK, I’ll stop rambling, but I would appriciate any advise/suggestion you have on this.

[rmschne]

When I’m inclined to capture a note, I tend to long press the DEVONthink ToGo icon (ipad and iphone) and pick “new note” and then do it. I don’t “open” anything. That being said, there is nothing that says you have to use DEVONthink ToGo.

[saltlane]

I use drafts as it opens and you can type immediately. There are also shortcuts/share sheet to send URLs etc to drafts.

I then have an action in drafts that fires a draft into the DT inbox. I have this action on the bar across the bottom of the drafts screen so I can send a note to DT quickly. The flow is: open drafts->type->press the action. The first line of the draft is used as the file name.

But what about stuff you forget to send (so notes don’t build up in drafts rather than DT)? It is possible to create an action that sends drafts based on criteria and then on MacOS schedule it run regularly (as a catch all). The following might help:

[Pending] Automatically run action on a Workspace on a scheduled basis

[DTLow]

@jem

In DTTG, I need to decide where it should go, create a the note, select which type of item it is, and then paste it in.

I use DTTG for collection - just ‘create the note’
often using the share menu
The notes are collected in the global inbox

Processing is done later with DT on my Mac, assisted with an applescript

[MsLogica]

I also use drafts as my only “start a note” location, and then use an action to send to DT. It’s seamless, and since there’s only one place a note can start I know that if it’s not in DT I must have left it in Drafts.

However, if you don’t like the long press option with DTTG, you can also set up a shortcut, which I’ve used in the past.

[dansroka]

I think you explained that very well. And I am in the same position. I want to use DTTG on my phone for note taking, but… it feels like there’s too much grit in the way.

First, there as so many steps: long press icon > select “new note” > fill in that initial form (title, body, etc) > select file type > then, continue to edit. Then there is the disconnect between how text is displayed in that initial form and how it is displayed in the different edits.

What I’d love to see is:

• In preferences: set what file format a new note should be
• In preferences: define the default starting font and size for text files (my default)
• When you long press the icon and select “new note”, just open a new document directly in the editor for your selected format.

[kewms]

Honestly, “quick (digital) notes” is IMO still an unsolved problem. There’s an inherent tension between ease of capturing the note and ease of incorporating it into a larger system that I don’t think any software has really solved. The tools that are good at capture are good in part because they have very flat, very simple organizational schemes, which are inherently hard to scale to a general purpose storage/retrieval system.

[kewms]

Building on this after thinking about it a bit, I think the fundamental metaphor is some kind of “capture” + some kind of “processing,” + some kind of “storage” for processed notes. Which is how paper-based systems have worked for a long, long time.

Digitally, systems tend to emphasize either “capture” or “storage,” but I think they often fundamentally misunderstand the “processing” part. “Processing” in the sense I mean is not “slap some tags on this thing” so it will come up later in a search for that tag. Rather, it’s the intellectual work of figuring out how the new note fits into the person’s mental model of whatever the topic is.

The key insight of Luhrmann’s Zettelkasten, in my opinion, is that “processing” is a, well, process, not a discrete task. Each new note affects how the existing notes are understood.

Which means that you can’t incorporate a “quick note” directly into your long term storage system. By definition, you don’t have time to figure out where it belongs in more than a very general “apply a tag” kind of way. It also means that the “processing” step can’t be done without considering what already exists in the “storage” area. (See also Mark Bernstein and the Tinderbox idea of “emergent structure.”)

For those reasons, I think the bottom line is that “processing” is necessarily a human task, not a software task. Software can certainly facilitate it, but the “heaviness” the OP described is an inevitable result of trying to combine capture + processing + storage into a single step.

Edit: I think I may have just talked myself into going another round in my ongoing struggle to grok Tinderbox. Oops.

[jem]

Thanks for all your thoughts about this topic. I also realize that I forgot important thing: I’m using two sets of Mac+ipad+iPhone with different Apple-IDs with DT working as the connection between them (i.e. the databases are synced).

I’ll have to revisit Bear/Drafts to see if I can get it to work (I’ve failed so far)

[chrillek]

So, you don’t use iCloud to sync your DT databases between the two sets of devices?

[saltlane]

FYI - How to automate Drafts to DT.

There is an action in the drafts directory to send things to DT. Add that to drafts (I have my own version which adds creation date to the bottom of any note - You can go as mad as you like on ‘templating’ the note to send to DT).

1. Create a workspace in drafts with the criteria to select the drafts you want in DT. For me, I want to keep certain ‘tags’ in drafts and only catch drafts that have been missed after three days.
   

   

2. Create an apple shortcut (which you can automate) to fire the drafts into DT using the draft action:

You can also run this on MacOS with Keyboard Maestro or with a smart rule in DT via AppleScript:

tell application "Shortcuts Events"
	run the shortcut named "Send Drafts to DT"
end tell

[jem]

No. I have a Synology NAS and use WebDAV to access the syncstore I have there. One set of the machines are for work so I want to keep clear line what is what. I also use WebDAV for a few other things so it wasn’t any extra work for me.

[jem]

Thanks for this

[bunnybear]

I’ve also experienced this sentiment regarding DTTG, but I’ve come to the realization that this is because I’m not familiar with utilizing all the features of DTTG. I think the developers have done a thorough job to ensure that you can capture information from pretty much anywhere.

I would suggest reading the DTTG manual and the DTTG actions in the Shortcuts app.

[BLUEFROG]

Welcome @bunnybear and thanks for the nice comments!

[troejgaard]

@kewms

There’s an inherent tension between ease of capturing the note and ease of incorporating it into a larger system

You have some good observations @kewms, but I think OP was only talking about the capture part.

If the goal is to quicky capture a fleeting thought, I also experience too much friction using the New Document Assistant.

@jem Drafts is an option, but you can also just create a shortcut for DTTG that skips all the creation options. As for…

@jem

finding & launching the shortcut also takes time (especially if I would need multiple shortcuts).

… you can add a shortcut to the home screen Or a widget with a selection of shortcuts.

Here is an example shortcut that lets you log something without even opening DTTG, or choose to continue editing in the app:

DT New Markdown

Screenshot

For the rest, I just use the share sheet extension. If I want to add a quick thought/note I use the comments field.

[troejgaard]

@dansroka

define the default starting font and size for text files (my default)

There is already a setting for the font size of plain text/markdown, so presumably you’re talking about Rich Text or Formatted Notes.

An option using the currently available tools: Create a document, style the text as you like, and use that as a template file. You can set up a shortcut that duplicates the template, renames the new file + updates relevant metadata (like creation date)—and then opens it ready for editing.

New RTF from template

[dansroka]

Hey, cool! Thanks for figuring that out. Shortcuts does not make it easy, but once you work through it, it does the job.

[troejgaard]

You’re welcome! I forgot how not-obvious it can be, so to clarify: the Move Item action can also be used to duplicate and replicate.

@BLUEFROG perhaps worth adding to the action description in the manual.

[dansroka]

Another bit of advice: to make it easier to edit Shortcuts on your phone, I use the iPhone Mirroring app in OS15 Sequoia. This way I can edit the shortcut on my desktop Mac, but still link in commands for iOS apps.