Un-indexing folders

[christinaweyl]

Hello, all. This is a question about un-indexing folders. Bear with me.

I’m an art historian and have been using DTP3 for about 9 months. I began using DTP3 for a new research project, for which I created a new database and 100% indexed my files from Finder. I prefer to index vs. import.

I am now trying to build a second DTP3 database for a project that was my dissertation but has since expanded in new directions. Basically, I am studying a printmaking workshop that had three periods: A, B, and C. My dissertation was about period B, but I’m now researching periods A and C.

I have research files about periods A and C stored on my Mac in different Finder locations, which are outside the core dissertation folder structure for period B. I’d like to keep the new research files for A and C saved where they are (I’m sharing them with a colleague via Google Drive), but use DTP3 to consolidate material A, B, and C into a new centralize database.

Essentially, my research folders for periods A, B, and C have the same general file structure, with 4 primary folders in the main directory: 1) Artists, 2) Archives, 3) Bibliography, and 4) Collections. I am indexing relevant folders from A, B, and C into this new DTP3 database. For example, a new folder for “Artists” which has subfolders A: Artists, B: Artists, and C: Artists.

Nothing is simple in combining years of research, and I’m encountering some instances of sub-folders that I indexed initially but would like to “un-index.” From what I’ve read, it should be possible to “un-index” them by deleting the folder and emptying the trash. But, I’m encountering an issue where the “Empty Trash” option is not giving me the correct prompt.

I am seeing the following prompt: “There are some indexed items in the Trash. Do you want to remove all the items, including the indexed ones, or just the imported items?”

• Remove Imported Items
• Remove All Items
• Cancel

If I chose “remove imported items,” the folder does not empty from the trash and remains indexed. If I select “remove all items,” the folder is permanently deleted from the database as well as my Finder. This is not what I want at all. I simply want to exclude the indexed folder from the database.

I’ve tested indexing folders from different locations, and for some reason, folders indexed from my Downloads folder produce the correct prompt. If I want to “unindex” test foldlders indexed from Downloads, I can delete the folder in DTP3. I get the right warning upon emptying the trash: “Some items are indexed, external files and/or folders. Also remove these files & folders? This cannot be undone!” and select “ONLY IN DATABASE.”

What can I do about indexed folders which I want to “unindex” but am only getting the option to remove from the database and permanently delete? Do I just have to permanently delete and retroactively replace from a backup?

[saltlane]

This may not be the Devonthink official way…but I find it the safest.

1. Import the finder folder into the DT group (Items now safe in DT) and imported rather than indexed. It’s an option in the file menu.
2. You can clean up finder
3. Now export the group to create a new finder folder (items now in DT and in Finder but not linked)
4. Once you are happy everything matches, delete the DT group and empty DT trash.

Like you , I have been unable to find a way to ‘un index’ without DT deleting the finder folder or refusing to remove items from DT trash.

[BLUEFROG]

From what I’ve read, it should be possible to “un-index” them by deleting the folder and emptying the trash
…
But, I’m encountering an issue where the “Empty Trash” option is not giving me the correct prompt.

I don’t know where you’re reading this, but it’s incomplete and the prompt is correct.

As is discussed in the In & Out > Importing & Indexing > Indexing and the filesystem section of the built-in Help and manual, deletion and the prompts depend on what you have put in the Trash. The message about Only In Database is only issued when you trash the indexed parent or individually indexed documents not indexed Finder subfolders and documents. Then you are removing the references from the database’s index.

What can I do about indexed folders which I want to “unindex” but am only getting the option to remove from the database and permanently delete? Do I just have to permanently delete and retroactively replace from a backup?

You can’t merely unindex something like this, also discussed in the Help, these forums, etc. Indexing is not the default mechanism for good reasons, so your preference to index can’t supersede the technical realities laid out in the documentation.

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Please clarify what you want in the new database?

[christinaweyl]

I don’t know where you’re reading this, but it’s incomplete and the prompt is correct.

I read in this thread about deleting/removing an indexed parent folder.

Could you please define what an indexed parent is? In my database, I created a new group, let’s call it “Folder 1.” Inside Folder 1, I indexed several folders, let’s call them Folder X and Folder Y. I now want to remove Folder X from Folder 1 and the entire DT database. I am receiving the prompt: “Do you want to remove all the items, including the indexed ones, or just the imported items.” Is Folder X not a indexed parent?

Please clarify what you want in the new database?

As mentioned, I am consolidating three separate work streams about three distinct moments in the 60-year history of a printmaking studio. Period 1’s research is currently shared via Google Drive with a colleague, and I have Google Drive syncing those folders to my Finder. I cannot import this material into DT, because then any changes or additions I make will be inaccessible to my colleague who views the files via Google Drive.

Period 2’s research lives on my computer. It could be imported.
Period 3’s research is so far in progress and not shared. It could be imported.

[BLUEFROG]

Any folder you index individually is an indexed parent.

If you indexed Folder 1, any subgroup you delete should prompt this when emptying the Trash…

But deleting Folder 1 prompts this when emptying the Trash…

And yes, I just confirmed this behavior here.

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Are you using the Date Added for anything in the database?

[christinaweyl]

I did not index Folder 1. Instead, Folder 1 was created in DT as a “New Group.” It is in the main directory of the database. So therefore it is not an indexed parent?

Inside Folder 1, I indexed individually Folder X and Folder Y.

When deleting Folder X (a sample folder from my Dissertation files, saved deep inside Finder), I get the first message upon emptying the trash–i.e., “remove all items.”

When deleting Folder Y (a sample folder I indexed from my Downloads folder), I get the second message–i.e., “only in database.”

I would prefer not to delete Folder 1 and start over, but I have no idea what to do from here.

[BLUEFROG]

@christinaweyl

Instead, Folder 1 was created in DT as a “New Group.” It is in the main directory of the database. So therefore it is not an indexed parent?

Correct. If the group is created in DEVONthink, it is not indexed at all, therefore not an indexed parent.

When deleting Folder X (a sample folder from my Dissertation files, saved deep inside Finder), I get the first message upon emptying the trash–i.e., “remove all items.”

Are you sure you didn’t index it as a subfolder then reorganize it outside its parent group?
What is the Path reported in the Tools > Generic info inspector?

I would prefer not to delete Folder 1

From what you’ve described, there is no Folder 1 since it’s not indexed. It is a group in DEVONthink.

[chrillek]

Folders are entities in the file system, thus in Finder. A group in DT is not an entity, unless it represents an indexed folder.
It would be helpful to use the correct terminology to refer to folders in the Finder and groups in DT. Calling everything a folder is confusing.

[saltlane]

I have never had this pop up appear.Mystified.

[christinaweyl]

Are you sure you didn’t index it as a subfolder then reorganize it outside its parent group?

Yes, absolutely sure.

What is the Path reported in the Tools > Generic info inspector?

Here is a screenshot of the main file structure. Atelier 17 is the database. Artists is a non-indexed group created in DT.

In the next sub-level down, 2. NY Men is a non-indexed group created in DT. See screenshot of Generic info. There is no file path.

In the next file level down, the artist folders have been individually indexed into 2. NY Men. Below is the Generic info showing a file path for Albers, Joseph.

I cannot “un-index” Albers, Joseph without deleting it from my computer.

[BLUEFROG]

So if you throw Alberts, Joseph in the trash and empty it, what prompt are you seeing?
If it was individually indexed, not coming in as a subgroup , you should see the Only in Database prompt when you attempt to empty the Trash.
You’re not seeing that?

Just to eliminate variables, have you done a File > Verify & Repair Database on this database?

[christinaweyl]

I tried deleting Albers, Joseph and got the following message upon trying to empty the trash.

Just to eliminate variables, have you done a File > Verify & Repair Database on this database?

I did this after the above test of deleting Albers, Joseph. Now the “delete” icon in my toolbar is greyed back, and I’m not able to test deleting/emptying trash.

[BLUEFROG]

Hold the Option key and choose Help > Report bug to start a support ticket.

[christinaweyl]

Hold the Option key and choose Help > Report bug to start a support ticket.

OK, this starts a new email (from Outlook) with 4 attachments, but there’s no email address in the “to” field. Where do I send?

[BLUEFROG]

support@devontechnologies.com.