Hi, I recently purchased DT3Pro and am just getting to grips with the basics. I’m trying to figure out the best workflow possible, taking the following into account:
I am an academic working in humanities and social sciences and collect lots of articles, reports, news web clippings. I’m planning to have one database for my research collections, and another database for my own writing projects. I already have quite a bit of material on my mac, but much of it is old and I wouldn’t necessarily need it all for future work. I’ll have a separate database also for work admin type documents.
I need to sync and access/work across two macs and an ipad (for which I can get the ToGo version).
I am “old-school” and not super-tech oriented. Until now I didn’t even use a proper citation manager and did everything manually in Word. I’d like to start using a reference citation manager for when I write, and have installed zotero which seems to have the best capabilities of finding the correct metadata, but have also looked at bookends.
I’m trying to find a simple workflow that leverages the power of DT3 for organising and searching across my research, but also be able to use a citation manager plugin when I write in Word.
I appreciate that people here have some really impressive ways of working with multiple apps and scripts, but I am a simple person looking for simple solution with minimal steps and little tech know-how.
So far, I can think of two possibilities:
capture all my documents into Zotero, pulling in the old material and anything new from online as a I go along. Use a Zotero folder in my university onedrive account (which I think requires using the zotfile plugin to transfer each attachment after I capture it), and not be too bothered about organising in the zotero folder. Have DT3 index the Zotero storage folder, and do all my reading/organising/annotating in DT3. Then when I get to writing, everything will also have been in Zotero so I can just use the Word plugin for referencing. The advantages I see here are that zotero seems to do the best job at capturing the correct metadata for citations. The downsides are the extra step in zotero of using the zotfile to move each attachment, and that I’m not sure how this would work in terms of opening indexed files on the Ipad.
The other option is just to capture everything directly into DT3. Most of the documents I collect will not need to be cited, so when the time comes to have a writing project, I could select the files I intend to cite (which I will have labelled as I go along), and export to a folder for importing into Zotero. The advantage here is it is a much simpler day to day workflow. The concern is that I would end up needing to edit the metadata in zotero before I can use it for citations, given that DT3 does not seem to collect it as well.
Are my above solutions the right ones to my situation, or would you recommend something else? Please keep in mind that I am not as tech savvy as most people here seem to be, and I’m not going to start using lots more complicated apps and scripts. The more complicated it gets, and the more steps to any process, the less likely it is that I’ll end up using it…
Thank you in advance for any advice!
Thanks. That’s what I was thinking would be best, but I’ve been experimenting with both options for the past few hours, and the problem is that zotero is so much better at capturing the correct data (titles, authors etc) than the DT3 clipper. It even seems to recognise the existence of a pdf link on a page and download it with all correct citation data without needing to open it first in the browser. DT3 clipper seems to have more trouble recognising anything that doesn’t have clear doi etc details (I guess zotero uses some kind of scraper). It’s making me lean more toward collecting in Zotero and then indexing to DT3. I’ll need to see how that works with ipad, though.
You can capture the PDF links in DT and then export those to Zotero when the time comes. That is, send Zotero to the original source rather than DT’s copy of it.
Ok. Please insure you read and understand indexing in the “DEVONthink Manual” as you want to avoid inadvertent corruption to either the Zotero files and/or the DEVONthink indexes.
and the problem is that zotero is so much better at capturing the correct data (titles, authors etc) than the DT3 clipper.
DEVONthink’s web clipping function is not the same as what Zotero is doing so it’s not a 1:1 comparison. Also, Zotero certainly doesn’t capture all the expected metadata, even with documents from the same publication’s site. But if it makes sense to you, use it.
That being said, Zotero is a closed-loop, so if you want to use DEVONthink, I would put things in DEVONthink then add them into Zotero after the fact, if needed.
Thanks for all the comments thus far!. I"ve been running multiple tests, saving (through zotero) and then annotating and moving groups in DT across macs and ipads, and so far so good. All the changes and items indexed from zotero sync up nicely in DT3 and DTTG. The only niggle I’ve found is that deleting an item in DT3 will delete the linked attachment in zotero but not the parent metadata item, so I will end up with some unwanted residue in zotero unless I go there and delete the item manually. But I think I can live with that because the rest of the workflow is as simple as can be and achieves the basics that I wanted.
If you want a truly super simple workflow you can organize your Zotero documents into collections and then use Zotero to create links to those collections and save those links in Devonthink as bookmarks.
I’m indexing the OneDrive Folder in which Zotero stores attachments (I don’t use Zotero storage, and use the zotfile in Zotero to move linked attachments to a folder of my choice). This seems to work fine for DT3 indexing.
The changes I’m referring to are when I open the document in DT3/DTTG and highlight or add notes, then I can see the highlights/notes on my other mac/ipad.
Take note, that does not include any metadata found in Zotero. Annotations are made to the document in the Finder, so logically they also appear in DEVONthink as it’s pointing at the same file.
I’m indexing the OneDrive Folder in which Zotero stores attachments
I hope you’ve read and understood the In & Out > Importing & Indexing section of the built-in Help and manual.
Indeed, I read the manual as well as the take control of DT, thanks.
Unless I’m missing something, the metadata is going to be important for me when I need to write/cite, and at that point I’ll be using the zotero plugin so should be ok. But within DT3 what I care about is the actual contents of the documents for purposes of reading, and that DT3 smart searches based on contents/words in the documents will work.
I did, thanks. I have no intention to move the indexed files or ever touch them in their original form. They will all go straight into one big storage folder of all zotero attachments. I have no other use for that folder, so there is (hopefully) minimal risk of any accidental interference. I will only open the indexed files through the DT3 interface to organise in groups and then read and highlight/note within DT3.
I would have gladly gone the other route of capturing everything directly into DT3, but the problem I’m encountering is that for lots of web sources the DT3 clipper struggles to download the file properly or to get the data for it, whereas Zotero gets it all easily with one click. For example with articles on SSRN (sorry I tried to include a link here but I’m getting an error message that I can’t post url links?)
I can’t seem to find an easy way to get the article on this page into DT3 with all its correct title etc automatically. I have to open the pdf in the browser and it then downloads it without a useful filename, so I then need to start editing the data each time. Whereas in zotero with one click on their browser extension (even while on this cover page without clicking to open the pdf in the browser) it downloads the pdf and gives it all the correct name and metadata. And with the zotero folder indexed, that same correct pdf is waiting for me in the DT3 interface.
If I’m being an idiot and missing something obvious then please do tell me, I’d be delighted - working directly into DT3 would be better.
Zotero is not a competitor with DEVONthink, just like Bookends isn’t. It’s also built specifically for the tasks for which you’re using it, specifically coded for it. That’s not a general function you’d find in every web capturing mechanism.