From this thread: Tinderbox users?
this quote…
Why is it not “a great note taking app”? I use it to take notes every. single. day. And yes, I write Markdown in it, every day.
Thoughts?
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Well that was me, so I should clarify.
Right now, DTPO is by far the best note repository (assuming you don’t prefer Tinderbox, of course). But DTPO is not a very friendly note taking app because, frankly, it’s UI/UX feels clunky and out of date.
For example, there’s no menu button to create a new Markdown document. I had to create a custom keyboard shortcut for that. I can use the Sorter’s note function, but it’s stuck to the Sorter and isn’t very pretty.
I’d rather take notes in Bear and export to DTPO later. Better yet, if DTPO had a text rendering engine that would allow it to look like Bear, that would be the best of both worlds.
Could I use DTPO for note taking? Yes, but I choose not to because the experience simply isn’t very good to other note taking apps.
“pretty” does not make an app more powerful or functional.
Currently, no but there are also ways you can add your own, and has been covered in the Forums before (More Markdown Support)
If the Sorter isn’t running, a Take Note window will appear when you use Tools > Take Note.
Beyond cosmetics, are there functional issues that keep DEVONthink form being an effective note-taking app? (And again, I ask as someone who uses it every day - especially with Markdown but also tons of plain text too.)
Oh but it does. Design and UX are CRUCIAL to an app’s power and functionality. I don’t care how well an app is programmed and put together–if I can’t use it, preferably intuitively, then it really isn’t all that powerful or functional–not on a practical level anyway.
I can’t separate “cosmetics” from “functionality” in certain instances. For example, does Bear’s “pretty” Markdown syntax “highlighting” represent a “cosmetic” or “functional” feature? For me, it’s both. I prefer taking notes in Bear precisely because I can immediately see how my text is formatted and organized. Plain text or non-syntax highlighted/previewed Markdown doesn’t provide the same level of functionality, even though you could argue it’s just a merely cosmetic difference.
But ignoring the appearance, the thing that bugs me most is that if I want the Sorter running (and I do), I can’t also just get a new note in that dark, transparent floating window style. That alone would be a nice addition. The important part is that the Take Note window be available from anywhere in the system with a hot key, like the Sorter.
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This is a subjective term. What you find intuitive may be obtuse to someone else.
A good case in point. No knock on Bear’s developers but I hate seeing the formatting applied along side the Markdown characters. I would prefer, and find it more intuitive, to have a preview pane and a code pane (a lá Macdown). Does that mean Bear isn’t powerful or functional for me? No. It just means I don’t prefer to use it because of this very reason.
And the comment on the availability of the Take Note window is noted (and I agree).
I don’t mind a hint of syntax highlighting or inline formatting when viewing the bare markdown. I don’t need my H1s to be supersized when viewing the raw markdown, but it is nice to have some additional visual indication that it is heading tag (or a link, or bold, or emphasis, or block quote etc). The main reason I like it is that it helps me pick up on little syntax errors that might interfere with formatting. If I enter in some markdown and a visual indicator of the syntax is absent, I can immediately corrected, rather than having to switch to a preview mode just to see I should have used two asterisks instead of 1, or that I needed an extra line break, or that there was a hidden line break that interrupted a contiguous block quote, etc.
Not a dealbreaker (though full disclosure, I don’t write notes, markdown or otherwise, directly in DTPO or DTTG), but a subtle indication that the syntax is correct does help a fair bit.
Where do you write your notes?
Also, I agree largely with what you said about syntax highlighting. I am almost as happy in Ulysses or Drafts, neither of which have the same level of visual indicators as Bear.
I write most of my notes in iaWriter on Mac and iOS, and sometimes 1Writer depending on my mood.
Have you seen this one? 18 Best Note Taking Apps For Mac & OneNote Alternatives of 2023. Not bad for an app not designed for this specifically!
I agree. I think bear and obsidian both have features especially on mobile like the real time preview (or whatever they call the auto show formatting), a very usable toolbar with way more functionality (add date, time, etc that are mobile friendly), and templates that make the mobile experience much more usable. I don’t use the Mac DT much. I do think UI/UX are a huge part of the experience. DTTG is often times function over form, but I agree both would be nice together.
I had been using mobile panda editor (bears editor) with DTTG until the test flight went away. That experience built into DTTG is pretty much my dream app, power, functional and great design.
DT made it on to last month’s Fast Company’s list of note-taking apps too:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90945231/field-guide-to-apps-for-notes
(Under the “nerdy” sub-list, which amused me.)
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I don’t think DevonThink 3 is a good note taking app.
DevonThink 3 takes too much time to adjust the layout and appearance of a note. You’d have to create your own CSS for your Markdown to look decent. Otherwise, the layout, typography and other parts look terrible.
Also, you will find it really hard to add tables into the markdown note itself.
Most people I know use typora as the interface for DevonThink markdown files.
As much as I like the functions of DevonThink 3, their aesthetics are not good enough.
I’d say, they could cooperate with developers like Bear to create a default CSS that makes their markdown note files beautiful.
Also, til now, live preview of markdown is still not supported. You can’t create a markdown note and get it’s preview instantly.
You could use freely available CSS for MD (like that of Typora). And what is “decent” lies in the eye of the beholder, I think. How many CSS would DT have to offer so that enough people find one of them “decent”?
Also, that concerns representation, not note-taking itself. Tables – well, that’s a sore point almost everywhere. I worked as a typesetter (the person, not the machine) for quite some time, and as an editor for 16 years. Tables were always a PITA, even with professional typesetting software, and I doubt that’ll change.
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It’s probably true that DT won’t win any prize for extraordinary beauty - at the moment, maybe never 
. But it’s also true that people who write (professionally) need a thousand excuses to explain to themselves why they can’t write right now. Everyone and everything is to blame, except themselves.
That’s what I claim, someone who writes for a living. 
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I guess I don’t know what you mean, as in my DEVONThink 3.9.3 Markdown preview is shown, and updated automatically. See Screen shot. Works for me.
I distinguish between “Note Taking” and “Writing/Formatting”. When Note taking i use DEVONthink and Scrivener as they are always running, quick, and put in a place I can find them later for writing and formatting the deliverable.
Just me.
And I’m more than happy with the interface. I don’t need “pretty” (whatever that means).
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It seems to be a well-trodden path, even outside this thread, but as has been noted many times, DevonThink isn’t a note-taking app, we just like to joke about it being one. It is an app that happens to take notes.
In any case, aesthetics are somewhat subjective here. It does what most of us need it to do (let’s us write things down without having to open a third-party app if we don’t want to). Yes the markdown interface could be prettier, but it doesn’t actually change what I write so I don’t really care.
As for the app itself, I seem to be in a minority who like the app’s design 
It reminds me of the old computer interfaces and I like it. It inspires confidence and stability and reminds me of older Windows OS. I don’t need an app that looks the same as every other Mac app on the market (lots of white (or dark!) space, sleek animations for buttons, with icons that are nice but not terribly clear, etc.). I need an app that is reliable and has a clear interface, especially for the complexity that DT offers. I have no doubt that the app could be made to look like every other Silicon Valley knowledge app out there, but I’m not convinced it would be to the benefit of its users.
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I suspect they mean WYSIWYG editing, where the text is formatted as you write, which DT doesn’t offer but many markdown editors do.
Personally, it’s a nice to have but doesn’t change my use of DT.
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Good point. In 16 years of working as an editor, I never used a WYSIWYG tool nor did I miss that – the text was written in Emacs (yes, we were that stubborn) and a custom-made mode applied basic formatting on the fly (italics, bold, headlines). More importantly, it highlighted “bad” words/grammar. The more colorful a text was, the more work it required.
I’d love to see that in DT, but I won’t hold my breath.
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Then you know what you’re talking about.
I wonder if there is a mathematician who blames his pencil for not being able to solve an equation.
No offense. But some of my colleagues do exactly that because they can’t write. 
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This topic has been going on for so long - but I understand it since it took me also a while to realize that the solution is not found in one app but using two together.
You can use iA Writer as a highly rated note taking environment and have the notes in DT and DTTG.
This makes DT an excellent writing environment with a brilliant design for writers and what not.
I also initially tried to create a css to get close to an environment like iA Writer or Bear, only to eventually realize that they work so nicely together.
Olaf